Olympics Thread

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="604525" data-time="1470779305">
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i don't give a shit about 7s, but losing to japan is still a disgrace.
 
i've long been opposed to the tactic of picking 7s specialists when there are 15s players available who are just better footy players. it's not a complicated game, as evidenced by the rapid success of teams throwing a bit of money/attention at it - or just picking sheer pace - and our style of 15s produces guys who are a natural fit for 7s.
 
i think it would be a serious possibility that you could pick a team of guys from our super teams, give them 2 weeks in camp and beat our 7s team. 
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If what you are saying is true then I don't really see the point in even competing in the World Series. Just turn up two weeks before. All good. None of the other teams have done this so this certainly is not why we are losing.
 
Even if we did a camp two weeks before the only players you could have picked from would be the Blues and the Crusaders. Someone like Moala probably didn't want to give up a probable starting spot in Sydney either.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JAF" data-cid="604517" data-time="1470778397">
Karma can be a bitch at times. Or just a Japanese word? Lol.</blockquote>
 
Mate I hope that losing to Japan at sevens doesn't meet your karmic requirements , it's a looooooooooong way from what happened at the rwc. The last time I went to the sevens Fiji lost to the us and Samoa knocked us out of the tournament , it happens . In terms of embarrassment losing to Japan at the rwc is pretty much the Everest of humiliation.

Nepia

I don't actually care about the loss to Japan (other than, well that sucks). But, I'm gutted we've lost SBW for The Rugby Championship.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="604483" data-time="1470772673">
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I think this is a money thing.
...
If we are serious, we need to spend more and support more. 
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Quoting myself, to bring an article in from Ben Strang on money in sevens, including a key quote from Titch
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82962706/ben-strang-new-zealand-must-centralise-national-sevens-programmes'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82962706/ben-strang-new-zealand-must-centralise-national-sevens-programmes</a>
 
The top sides in world rugby sevens now train together all months of the year at a central training base, while New Zealand players only come together for specified training camps. Kiwi players train in their provinces in small training groups, before joining the whole squad in camp ahead of a major tournament. That plan of action isn't working, and money must be spent to bring the squads together and return New Zealand to the top of the sevens world.
 
 
The evidence is there for all to see that as money is pumped into sevens campaigns around the planet, the cushion New Zealand once enjoyed over their competitors has eroded.
 
"You have to eat, breathe and sleep it because with our players scattered all around the country, it makes it so, so difficult," Tietjens told NZ Newswire.
"Other countries specialise, and that's where they've caught up."

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="604516" data-time="1470778304">
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Imagine if we picked Barrett and Smith and lost? Many of the same people having a go now would say we were disrespecting the Olympics by thinking players can just turn up without conditioning and win gold. As it turns out, Barrett would have to pull out with a couple of days notice as he was just winning the Super Rugby title. You can't have that for a major play maker.
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That would be bad but at least we would be replicating the largely successful plan that we used at the 2010 Delhi Games where Messam, Smith and Gear all parachuted in. Why we went away from having the stable core and then sprinkle the most talented players available - instead they chose to make the barrier to play so high that they are sorely lacking game changing players.
 
If they had have been willing to work more with the players and require less of a sacrifice like in 2010 where they only found out they had those three after they didn't make the 3N squad a week or two earlier we go with a much better squad. So maybe Barrett doesn't feel up to it after this run (or maybe he does) - but some of the Blues/Highlanders/Crusaders likely would. Ideally they should have had a pool of the interested high-skilled players had a few training camps, got them involved and then made the call two weeks ago based on fitness/workload/willingness. Hell even think outside the square on this one and see if they could get Piatau released if interested? 
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="604516" data-time="1470778304">
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There was a comment before about how people thought it was an automatic gold. The administrators have never thought that. I just watched the USA play. Carlin Isles could come to New Zealand get citizenship and represent New Zealand at the Olympic Games 100m. We just don't have players that can do that. The 25th fastest sprinter in the USA isn't going to the Olympics in sprinting but he is faster than anyone we have got and can happily go in 7's. We will always be a good 7's team but now the sport has matured.
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Yet Fiji are back-to-back 7 series title holders and Carlin would be their sprint champion too. But I agree with the general premise that the talent level has taken a step up in the past 5 years or so. Yet Titch, of his own choosing made the selection criteria so restrictive that we had no choice but to take our least talanted team to a major event in the past 16 years.
 
Much like 2003 semi final, you feel like we are going to die wondering because we took a knife to a gun fight.
 
If the NZRU's existence depended on winning this tournament they would have selected a team that would have entered the tournament as favourites.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="604409" data-time="1470743393">Yeah thanks - pretty sure I covered that in addressing both those sports and their differences.</blockquote> Then why bring them up? <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">Otherwise someone will enter the field in a position that is onside one second and not the next, and officials will be tripping over each other trying to figure out what's right.</blockquote> If they enter on-side there's no issue. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="604412" data-time="1470743659">???</blockquote> ??? You've quoted it: <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">The referee must not let a player rejoin a match until the ball is dead.</blockquote> Which is what I said. You can join from the sideline but they need to make an amendment for 7s that the ball doesn't have to be dead. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="604533" data-time="1470780415">That would be bad but at least we would be replicating the largely successful plan that we used at the 2010 Delhi Games where Messam, Smith and Gear all parachuted in. Why we went away from having the stable core and then sprinkle the most talented players available - instead they chose to make the barrier to play so high that they are sorely lacking game changing players. If they had have been willing to work more with the players and require less of a sacrifice like in 2010 where they only found out they had those three after they didn't make the 3N squad a week or two earlier we go with a much better squad. So maybe Barrett doesn't feel up to it after this run (or maybe he does) - but some of the Blues/Highlanders/Crusaders likely would. Ideally they should have had a pool of the interested high-skilled players had a few training camps, got them involved and then made the call two weeks ago based on fitness/workload/willingness. Hell even think outside the square on this one and see if they could get Piatau released if interested? Yet Fiji are back-to-back 7 series title holders and Carlin would be their sprint champion too. But I agree with the general premise that the talent level has taken a step up in the past 5 years or so. Yet Titch, of his own choosing made the selection criteria so restrictive that we had no choice but to take our least talanted team to a major event in the past 16 years. Much like 2003 semi final, you feel like we are going to die wondering because we took a knife to a gun fight.</blockquote> So Titch points out the other teams are all training together and your solution is to parachute blokes in just before the games? This is just a wakeup call to the NZRU to treat 7s seriously if it wants to remain competitive.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="604527" data-time="1470779608">
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and also i still cringe when the 7s team is referred to as the ABs. what they are is leftovers.
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Yup, it's times like this that I really wish we didn't slap the All Blacks name onto the Mickey Mouse 7s team.
 
A news headline of "Japan beat the All Blacks" was not one I wanted to see in my lifetime.
 
The most important part of the All Blacks brand is that we basically never fucking lose. That is no longer true - other countries will not make the distinction between 7s and 15s.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="604522" data-time="1470778832">
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Was also going to say ironically there seems less space in 7s. Perhaps less opportunity? Maybe due to the consequences of loss of possesdion?
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It's a lot different nowdays to what I remember back when Cully and Lomu were running in what seemed like acres of space. I think defense patterns are much better now, teams have realised you can fan out a lot more in 7s as you don't have some 140KG beast hitting it up the middle.
 
In saying that, I could see Barrett and B Smith running rings around defense with only 7 blokes in front of them.
 
I agree with the posters saying Titch was too stubborn. I get that he's always felt a bit 2nd class compared to the 15s coaches, but he really needed to try and work with ABs that showed interest. We are seriously lacking in x-factor.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="604533" data-time="1470780415">
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That would be bad but at least we would be replicating the largely successful plan that we used at the 2010 Delhi Games where Messam, Smith and Gear all parachuted in. Why we went away from having the stable core and then sprinkle the most talented players available - instead they chose to make the barrier to play so high that they are sorely lacking game changing players.
 
If they had have been willing to work more with the players and require less of a sacrifice like in 2010 where they only found out they had those three after they didn't make the 3N squad a week or two earlier we go with a much better squad. So maybe Barrett doesn't feel up to it after this run (or maybe he does) - but some of the Blues/Highlanders/Crusaders likely would. Ideally they should have had a pool of the interested high-skilled players had a few training camps, got them involved and then made the call two weeks ago based on fitness/workload/willingness. Hell even think outside the square on this one and see if they could get Piatau released if interested? 
 
 
Yet Fiji are back-to-back 7 series title holders and Carlin would be their sprint champion too. But I agree with the general premise that the talent level has taken a step up in the past 5 years or so. Yet Titch, of his own choosing made the selection criteria so restrictive that we had no choice but to take our least talanted team to a major event in the past 16 years.
 
Much like 2003 semi final, you feel like we are going to die wondering because we took a knife to a gun fight.
 
If the NZRU's existence depended on winning this tournament they would have selected a team that would have entered the tournament as favourites.
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You seem to be saying "New Zealand has been left behind by the other 7's teams. Therefore the solution is not to try to emulate what other programmes have done successfully. The solution is to do exactly the opposite to what everyone else does and hope it works. We should do what we have done in the past even though the game has moved on".
 
It's all very well to say "we'll never know" and that is true. However, if we did your plan and failed then we would still never know what would happen if we didn't do your plan.
 
I have also done a bit of research. The 2010 Sevens squad was named on<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://ur7s.com/news/nz_reveal_formidable_delhi_squad'> August 3</a>, the tournament started on October 11. Therefore if we followed that plan and picked the squad two months before then I don't think we could pick any Super Rugby teams as they were all still in playoff contention at that stage. You would be limited to players from the Blues at the very least. Regardless I think the sport has moved on from then.

mariner4life

so not a good day for NZ athletes then (whose stupid fucking idea was it to combine the general Olympics thread with the sevens thread?)
 
I watched us beat kenya in the 7s, it was pretty easy. Losing to Japan is a bit of a shock, but a great result for the legitimacy of the tournament.
 
How are the rowers doing? I see a world champion pair crashed out, but the singles fucking cruised through last night. I take it Bond and Murray are killing it?
 
Definitely disappointing about the equestrian, that would have been a great medal. 
 
anything else interesting over night?

Milk

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="604546" data-time="1470783361">
<div>I take it Bond and Murray are killing it? 
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69th win in a row. Insane.

Chris B.

I'm gutted for the equestrian team - but, I think it puts the ghost of Spinning Rhombus to bed. If I understand things right, maybe it was karma for all the harsh things Toddy's thought about him over the years. I daresay I'll understand more about this as the sevens progresses.
 
I think though Leonidas II is just a good, patriotic German horse. Could have used a bit of German precision though and dropped three rails instead of four - but, he doubtless wanted to be thorough. I also note Toddy saying - "he just went rigid on me and there's nothing I could do". Spoken like a true passenger, Toddy - give those medals to the horses! 
 
Sevens, meh - knock out matches come one round early. That will work in our favour because we will have additional practice when we get to the Quarterfinals and we couldn't possibly lose to Great Britain now. Could we? :)

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crash" data-cid="604509" data-time="1470777943">
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Why is the diving pool green?? :puke:
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Well Brazil's national colours are yellow and green....

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="604549" data-time="1470784138">
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I'm gutted for the equestrian team - but, I think it puts the ghost of Spinning Rhombus to bed. If I understand things right, maybe it was karma for all the harsh things Toddy's thought about him over the years. I daresay I'll understand more about this as the sevens progresses.
 
I think though Leonidas II is just a good, patriotic German horse. Could have used a bit of German precision though and dropped three rails instead of four - but, he doubtless wanted to be thorough. I also note Toddy saying - "he just went rigid on me and there's nothing I could do". Spoken like a true passenger, Toddy - give those medals to the horses! 
 
Sevens, meh - knock out matches come one round early. That will work in our favour because we will have additional practice when we get to the Quarterfinals and we couldn't possibly lose to Great Britain now. Could we? :)
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It's actually not quite knockout - a close loss SHOULD see the NZ 7s through the quarters thanks to their good for/against - the Aussies look in the most danger of missing out at this stage.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="604528" data-time="1470779629">
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If what you are saying is true then I don't really see the point in even competing in the World Series. Just turn up two weeks before. All good. None of the other teams have done this so this certainly is not why we are losing.
 
Even if we did a camp two weeks before the only players you could have picked from would be the Blues and the Crusaders. Someone like Moala probably didn't want to give up a probable starting spot in Sydney either.
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all of the 2nd paragraph supports my other contention that they're leftovers and shouldn't be called ABs. 
 
we are losing because we are not selecting our best players, and the game has progressed to the extent that to dominate we need to - whereas previously we could get away with it - the only way for us to do that is to either neglect the 15s (never going to happen) or allow players to come in late.
 
no idea of how difficult the scheduling would be, but it would be great for the olympic 7s if a window could be created to get as many international superstars as possible on the park.

Stargazer

The Football Ferns are not going well either. Not that that is really a surprise against France, but still ... France leading 2-0 with 5 minutes to play.

Bovidae

No medals for Serena in Rio. So both tennis no.1s exit early.

antipodean

What penance would you take for Olympic gold? Losing the Bledisloe? Losing the Rugby Championship? Being defending champions like England in 2004?

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="604559" data-time="1470786198">
all of the 2nd paragraph supports my other contention that they're leftovers and shouldn't be called ABs. 
we are losing because we are not selecting our best players, and the game has progressed to the extent that to dominate we need to - whereas previously we could get away with it - the only way for us to do that is to either neglect the 15s (never going to happen) or allow players to come in late. 
no idea of how difficult the scheduling would be, but it would be great for the olympic 7s if a window could be created to get as many international superstars as possible on the park.</blockquote>Are the other top teams stacked with 15s ring ins too? I'd have thought 7s should be treated as a separate game and supported accordingly by the NZRFU

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="604564" data-time="1470786317">
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What penance would you take for Olympic gold? Losing the Bledisloe? Losing the Rugby Championship? Being defending champions like England in 2004?
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All Blacks > Olympics all day long.

The Silver Fern

Olympics Thread