Olympics Thread
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p>There was much more than a place in an Olympic final at stake when Hungary took on the country that just invaded their own</p>
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<p><span style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><img height="372" src="https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2011/12/27/1324997977326/Hungarys-Ervin-Zador-is-e-007.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2" width="620" alt="Hungarys-Ervin-Zador-is-e-007.jpg?w=620&"></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Hungary's Ervin Zador is escorted from the pool with blood pouring from his cut eye during their 1956 Olympic water polo win over Russia. Photograph: Bettmann/Corbis </span></span></span></p>
<ul><li><br></li><li><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">These are the facts: on 6 December 1956 Hungary and the Soviet Union contested a water polo semi-final that has earned a place in infamy, an occasion that seethed with threatened or actual violence from the first minute and ended in chaos after Hungary’s young attacking prodigy Ervin Zador was taken, bleeding, out of the pool and straight to the medical room.</span></span></span></li>
<li><br></li></ul><br><p><strong><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:9pt;">A sporting occasion is nominally an opportunity for one or several sportspeople simply to prove their superiority over one or several others. The only question, in theory, is who can go furthest, highest or fastest. But it is rarely as simple as that, and sometimes history or circumstance confers a heavy subtext on to a fixture. Rarely can a sporting occasion have been laden with as much subtext as this.</span></span></span></strong></p>
<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Seven years after Hungary fell formally under Soviet control, any meeting between representatives of the two nations would naturally be lent extra significance. More in water polo, perhaps, than anything else: Hungary was the game’s great superpower, having won three of the previous four Olympic gold medals and a silver in London in 1948. At the 1952 Games, the Russians watched Hungary win yet again after themselves finishing a humiliating seventh. And so, as they worked on improving their chances for 1956, the Soviets landed on an unusual solution: given that they essentially owned Hungary, they would simply send their own team to benefit from Hungary’s unique, and uniquely successful, training regime.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">“At that point in time they were our idols, they were significantly better than us,†Viktor Ageyev, a member of the Soviet team, told the makers of the 2006 film <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://freedomsfury.net/'><span style="color:#005689;">Freedom’s Fury</span></a></span></span>, a documentary, produced by Quentin Tarantino and Lucy Liu, that told the story of the match. “I thought, ‘My God, how are we going to play against this team?’†Hungary’s Istvan Hevesi recalled: “They wrote down everything we did. The next day they did the same thing we did. They copied us.â€</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Several months before the Games, the two teams met again in a warm-up tournament in Moscow. The home side controversially won, allegedly thanks to some extremely generous refereeing on the part of a Muscovite official, and after the match the two sides enjoyed a memorable dressing-room punch-up. At another match in Hungary fans turned their backs as the Russians were introduced, and drowned out their national anthem. Had there been no more to the match than this, there would have been needle enough. But there was much, much more.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">There’s no way of doing this without a bit of history, but if you know your Hungarian revolution you may want to skip a few paragraphs. If you find this insufficient, there’s always </span></span></span><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956'><span style="color:#005689;"><span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Wikipedia</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">. If you fall somewhere in the middle, the best place to start is 1955, when Hungary’s populist, reformist prime minister, Imre Nagy, who had encouraged his country to dream of a bright, post-communist future following the death of Stalin two years earlier, was sacked after falling out of favour with Moscow. By then, though, there was growing appetite for change, which Stalin’s successor Nikita Khrushchev encouraged in a speech early the following year.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">That October, with Hungary still governed by a hardline Soviet regime, students in Budapest organised a protest. On 22 October – precisely one month before the opening ceremony was to take place in Melbourne – they took to the streets. By the end of the day an estimated 200,000 people were involved, and police, not really used to people voicing opinions or exercising free will, opened fire in an attempt to disperse the crowd. Violence broke out, and although Nagy was brought back as prime minister the following day, protests continued across the country.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Hungary’s Olympians, meanwhile, were sequestered in a large house just outside Budapest, close enough to hear the gunfire, wondering what the future might hold. On 30 October Nagy declared that they were to travel to Australia, where they would represent a free Hungary. But the country was relying on international support to stop the Soviets from suppressing their bid for freedom and on that same day, fatefully, the Suez crisis escalated, with Britain, France and Israel beginning their invasion of Egypt. Nagy pushed on and on 1 November, as the athletes headed to Yugoslavia, the first leg of a tortuous three-week journey, he withdrew Hungary from the Warsaw Pact and declared the country’s intention to seek independence. The athletes left with the revolution apparently successful.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">They heard no more news until their arrival in Melbourne on 20 November. Miklos Martin was the only member of the team who spoke English, and the others huddled round while he translated the latest from a newspaper: the Soviet Union had invaded, the resistance had been crushed, more than 3,000 Hungarians had died. Two days later, on the day of the opening ceremony, Nagy was arrested by Soviet forces; he would be tried, in secret, for treason and hanged. Spain, Switzerland and the Netherlands boycotted the Olympics altogether in protest at the Soviet invasion (while Egypt, Lebanon and Iraq stayed away because of Suez).</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">By now it was a month since the Hungarians last dipped a toe in a swimming pool. One of their players, Kalman Markovits, had developed a zonal marking system, quite revolutionary for its time, and his team-mates resolved to try it. They beat the USA 6-2 in their first group game, and then thrashed both Germany and Italy 4-0. The system had worked, and brought them a semi-final against the Soviet Union. For many members of the team, the occasion was all about revenge. “They began to shoot us, those bastards,†said Hevesi. “The fire inside us was beating so strongly. God help us, we’ll beat them for sure.â€</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">The occasion drew a capacity crowd, swelled with members of Melbourne’s large Hungarian community. The atmosphere was fraught from the start. “We felt we were playing for Hungary,†Zador told the </span></span></span><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00jhrt2/Sporting_Witness_Blood_in_the_Water_the_1956_Olympics/'><span style="color:#005689;"><span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">BBC’s Sporting Witness</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;"> (still available on iPlayer) last summer. “The Hungarians there were so charged, and there was such deep hostility for all the things they did to our country since 1945, that all these people in Australia just went absolutely berserk.â€</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">According to Zador the Hungarians resolved to avoid fights, but decided that they should do their best to wind up their opponents. “We figured if they were going to get angry they’re going to start to fight, and once they fight they won’t play well, and if they don’t play well we will beat them, and if we beat them we would win the Olympics,†he said.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">The plan worked. It took less than a minute for the first Russian player to react, and get sent to the penalty box. Two more were to follow (plus a couple of Hungarians). Russia’s own sense of injustice built as Hungary’s captain, Dezso Gyarmati, gave his side the lead from a twice-taken penalty, and their frustration grew as Hungary gradually accumulated a 4-0 lead while they struggled to break down their opponents’ zonal defence. Plus, there was the continued provocation. “We were yelling at them, ‘You dirty bastards. You come over and bomb our country,’†Zador recalled. “They were calling us traitors. There was fighting above the water and fighting beneath the water.â€</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">With two minutes to play, Zandor was asked to mark the Soviet Union’s Valentin Prokopov. “I said, ‘No problem. I can handle him,’†said Zador. “I’ll tell him he’s a loser and his mother’s a loser and everything else. I’ll say the game’s over and you’re just a sorry-assed loser, and that’s it.†Prokopov was perhaps his country’s finest player of the 1950s, but he will forever be remembered for what happened next. With Zador’s attention drawn to the other side of the pool by the referee’s whistle he rose out of the water and smote Zador with a vicious blow to the face. “I turn round to see him windmilling,†said Zador. “I saw that arm coming in my face, and I heard the crack, and suddenly I saw I think 48 stars. Man oh man, I was just like a stuffed pig!â€</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Blood poured from Zador’s split cheek as he was pulled from the pool. Members of the crowd, sitting just a couple of yards from pool side, jumped over the barriers and attempted to exact revenge on the Soviets. Police, primed for possible violence, immediately descended in numbers. As the crowd shouted “</span></span></span><em><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:'thread-00003c3c-id-000000a5', serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Hajra Magyarok!</span></span></span></em><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">†– “Go Hungary!†– and threw missiles at the Russian players, the Swedish referee – not that anyone could hear him – decided that he would prefer to be somewhere else and blew the final whistle.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Zador’s split and swollen cheek forced him to sit out the final, against Yugoslavia the following day, which Hungary won 2-1. He collected his gold medal, in civvies, and wept for the smouldering, broken country he had left behind, forever. He and about half of his team-mates sought asylum, rather than returning to live through Hungary’s uncertain future (even though, as glorious gold medallists, their individual futures would have been secure). Instead he headed for America where he was to become – and still, at 76, continues to be – a swimming coach. It wasn’t his last brush with Olympic glory, though: in the 1960s he coached a talented teenager who turned out to be quite good, by the name of Mark Spitz.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Pictures of Ervin Zador’s injuries were published around the world, which led to the Blood in the Water name. Hungary beat Yugoslavia 2-1 in the final to win their fourth Olympic gold medal. Zador left for San Francisco, where he gave up water polo entirely due to the low standard in the US and became a swimming coach. The match itself has been captured in two films: Children of Glory and Freedom’s Fury.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:#222222;"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;"> “I turned back and with a straight arm, he just smacked me in the face. He tried to punch me out … I felt warm blood pouring down. We felt we were playing not just for ourselves but for our whole country. We were yelling at them, ‘You dirty bastards. you come over and bomb our country,’ They were calling us traitors. There was fighting above the water and fighting beneath the water.â€</span></span></span></p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2011/dec/28/olympic-hungary-soviet-union-blood-water'>https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2011/dec/28/olympic-hungary-soviet-union-blood-water</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="604222" data-time="1470702083"><p>Darts and snooker have just as much right to be there as archery and shooting.</p></blockquote><br>Disagree. One has a link to skills required for battle and hunting sustenance. The other is something I do with a pint in my hand.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="604224" data-time="1470702522">
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<p>We should be better. Is there a comp comparable to the women's NPC anywhere else in the world? I'd be looking very hard at the coaching team.</p>
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<p>Blame NZR. They need to make the investment if we are to take sevens seriously. Previously NZ relied on natural talent.</p>
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<p>The full article is below but the key point is:</p>
<p>NZ women's sevens coach Sean Horan believes his team is the only regular team on the world circuit not operating under a centralised programme.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82891688/New-Zealand-at-risk-of-losing-sevens-edge-Gordon-Tietjens'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82891688/New-Zealand-at-risk-of-losing-sevens-edge-Gordon-Tietjens</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="604231" data-time="1470703146">
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<p>Blame NZR. They need to make the investment if we are to take sevens seriously. Previously NZ relied on natural talent.</p>
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<p>The full article is below but the key point is:</p>
<p>NZ women's sevens coach Sean Horan believes his team is the only regular team on the world circuit not operating under a centralised programme.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82891688/New-Zealand-at-risk-of-losing-sevens-edge-Gordon-Tietjens'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82891688/New-Zealand-at-risk-of-losing-sevens-edge-Gordon-Tietjens</a></p>
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<p>Another difference is the way in which our women's team was put together - competition over here probably isn't as widespread as NZ women's rugby, so our program recruited from everywhere: touch football, hockey, athletics etc.</p>
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<p>There were open training camps and I think it widened our pool dramatically.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="604224" data-time="1470702522">
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<p>Re: women's sevens.<br><br>
Not sure the logic behind the long restarts. Possession is vital.<br><br>
Goal kicking wasn't good enough.<br><br>
One mistake was so costly. Very harsh to blame the poor girl who made one bad split second decision. Watching her completely distraught at the end was pretty heartbreaking.<br><br><strong>We should be better. Is there a comp comparable to the women's NPC anywhere else in the world?</strong> I'd be looking very hard at the coaching team.</p>
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<p>Not sure what the women's NPC (XVs) has got to do with it? I know there's a NPC like competition in France: the Top 8 (equivalent to the men's Top 14); not sure about other countries. Several European national teams also play much more often (e.g. 6 Nations) than the Black Ferns.</p>
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<p>I agree about the goal-kicking; I couldn't help thinking that the technique looked poor.</p>
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<p>As it's not just the women's team that has lost ground, but also the men's team, the problems seem to be more about how it's organised (lack of centralised programme, see Bovidae's post) than coaching.</p> -
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="604239" data-time="1470705960">
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<p>Another difference is the way in which our women's team was put together - competition over here probably isn't as widespread as NZ women's rugby, so <strong>our program recruited from everywhere: touch football, hockey, athletics etc</strong>.</p>
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<p>There were open training camps and I think it widened our pool dramatically.</p>
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<p>That happened here in NZ, too, via the Go4Gold programme. Most of the NZ women's sevens players have come out of that programme and previously played other sports, such as touch, netball, football etc.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="604124" data-time="1470693218"><p>
Australia are very clear favourites for a good reason, I bet a yellow card costs NZ.<br>
Aus by 20</p></blockquote>
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Nostradamus -
Am liking this by Jacko Gill<br><br>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11690244'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11690244</a> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="604258" data-time="1470711086">
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<p>Am liking this by Jacko Gill<br><br><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11690244'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11690244</a></p>
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<p>Richie is over there (he presented the jerseys to the NZ men's 7s team) - perhaps he can have a yarn to Jacko about competing with a broken foot. </p> -
Very disappointing result given how well we defended and put pressure on early in the game. <br><br>
A few of our girls really stood up in the final I thought. <br><br>
Well done Oz. History making and all that stuff. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="604224" data-time="1470702522">
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<p>Re: women's sevens.<br><br>
Not sure the logic behind the long restarts. Possession is vital.<br><br>
Goal kicking wasn't good enough.<br><br>
One mistake was so costly. Very harsh to blame the poor girl who made one bad split second decision. Watching her completely distraught at the end was pretty heartbreaking.<br><br>
We should be better. Is there a comp comparable to the women's NPC anywhere else in the world? I'd be looking very hard at the coaching team.</p>
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<p>won't blame her for the mistake as the try they scored just before that should have been called a knock on so scenario would have been different - not saying we would have won but a non-try awarded then a player binned (that was off for farking ages as no break in play to come back on) totally change the match.</p>
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<p>don't really watch the 7's circuit - do they have tmo's in that? would have thought they would have had one for a gold medal match.</p>
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<p>noticed they weren't exactly replaying the front shot showing the dropped ball after the initial replay...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="604076" data-time="1470652903">
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<p>Italian diver chicks. Fuck. Yes.</p>
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<p>just further. Their synchronized team that got silver</p>
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<p><img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/58/72/d8/5872d86bf5e28b4291fadc5e1044c75c.jpg" alt="5872d86bf5e28b4291fadc5e1044c75c.jpg"></p>
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<p><img src="http://wwwrb.ansa.it/webimages/foto_large/2012/8/3/83ba570fb0fa1193413747e4c606ced7.jpg" alt="83ba570fb0fa1193413747e4c606ced7.jpg"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="604279" data-time="1470717492">
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<p>The top one yes, the bottom one I'll reserve judgement until she turns around and I can see her front on.</p>
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<p>I agree, she has an expression which would indicate she lost her tits in the pool.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="WillieTheWaiter" data-cid="604266" data-time="1470712640"><p>won't blame her for the mistake as the try they scored just before that should have been called a knock on so scenario would have been different - not saying we would have won but a non-try awarded then a player binned (that was off for farking ages as no break in play to come back on) totally change the match.<br><br>
don't really watch the 7's circuit - do they have tmo's in that? would have thought they would have had one for a gold medal match.<br><br>
noticed they weren't exactly replaying the front shot showing the dropped ball after the initial replay...</p></blockquote>
Yep they have tmo's. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="WillieTheWaiter" data-cid="604266" data-time="1470712640"><p>won't blame her for the mistake as the try they scored just before that should have been called a knock on so scenario would have been different - not saying we would have won but a non-try awarded then a player binned (that was off for farking ages as no break in play to come back on) totally change the match.<br> <br>don't really watch the 7's circuit - do they have tmo's in that? would have thought they would have had one for a gold medal match.<br> <br>noticed they weren't exactly replaying the front shot showing the dropped ball after the initial replay...</p></blockquote><br>Can't blame the ref for it either - she consulted with two assistants and they both said they were happy.<br><br>I agree that it would be a good law revision for 7s to have the person come back on the field as soon as the pently time is served. Experience probably suugests that play wouldn't continue for that long, particularly in a game where you really don't want to go give up possession.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="604299" data-time="1470724688">
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<p>Can't blame the ref for it either - she consulted with two assistants and they both said they were happy.<br><br>
I agree that it would be a good law revision for 7s to have the person come back on the field as soon as the pently time is served. Experience probably suugests that play wouldn't continue for that long, particularly in a game where you really don't want to go give up possession.</p>
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<p>The issue with allowing them back on is: where?</p>
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<p>A sport like AFL with an interchange bench has strict rules around where a player may enter or leave the field of play for interchange. They don't have an offside line, or a sin bin/card system. The game continues.</p>
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<p>League sides only do interchange when they have the ball, because they're unlikely to suffer a change of possession in the meantime. Again, this is interchange, not yellow card.</p>
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<p>With rugby, allowing a player back on the field without the consent of the referee - who is the sole judge of law in the game - has to have pretty tight restrictions placed around it.</p>
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<p>Firstly, the referee's often take a moment to address the player to reinforce the admonishment, though that is less so in 7s.</p>
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<p>Secondly, they can't come back from an offside position :think: maybe only from in-goal? Then an official has to monitor that as well.</p>
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<p>It sucks in this situation for the NZ team, but it has been this way since cards were introduced for these offences. And the effective doubling of the duration was down to game circumstances.</p>
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<p>Ultimately: don't put yourself in a position to give away yellow cards, or you put yourself in a position of disadvantage.</p>
