TRC squad

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="602979" data-time="1470285638">
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NMS is unlikely to play for the Poo or be available for the EOYT. 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11687346'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11687346</a>
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Thats cool ,after Riccitellis sidestep last night I think we found a replacement.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="603594" data-time="1470500419">
Sorry but I just don't buy that Savea is one of two specialist wings who can perform in AB environment, I think there are plenty who will raise there games once there, you can't say Savea will raise his game but no one else will. I thought he was exceedingly average other than French game at RWC and you would think that alone would have been motivation to come to camp in shape. It's such a week argument to say no one will acknowledge if Savea lifts his game , point is he hasn't lifted it for an extended period. I would love me to see a little more edge in the squad and players held accountable.</blockquote>
 
So who are these players who should go in ahead of him? 
It's not just my opinion that they think they can work to get him back to his peak. Clearly Hansen thinks that because he keeps picking him. Unlike other guys who "could" develop, Savea has proven it.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="603591" data-time="1470494616">
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Maybe it's just a case of the replacements aren't good enough. Piutau may have been but he fucked off so they rightly didn't spend any time developing him. Naholo was seen as a 14 at first in a race with NMS. NMS just played better then Naholo got injured.
The only other alternative that people on here are bringing up is Lowe and by his absence from even the extended squad you can see how much they don't rate him. Rightly so IMO.
 
I would also say they probably back themselves to work with a player to get them to their peak (which in the case of Savea is pretty high, he has proven that multiple times). In the absence of a decent alternative player the I back this approach.
It would be silly if they limited themselves to only players peaking in lower levels. If that was the case plenty of AB greats would have been dropped.
 
I would also dispute that Savea was bad during the RWC. He wasn't at his peak but he wasn't as bad as lots of people made out. He was playing a very different role carrying the ball in midfield and around the ruck. He was getting plenty of go forward and he was scoring tries. IMO one of the reasons the French game was seen as a walk over was because Savea was unstoppable and scored a three tries. 
 
Im hoping he lifts his game soon though. But I suspect some people won't acknowledge it if he does. Both Saveas seem to be players that some people just like to stick the boot into.
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Why would people not acknowledge it? In 2014 people thought Savea was getting up there was Lomu. I was one of them. However, he has now been poor for the vast majority of the last two seasons. I think Savea at his best always got involved and took hit ups in midfield.
 
Some people are saying that there is more to the Savea story. I don't think it matters. Presumably Savea has been picked because he is ready to play against Australia in two weeks time. If he isn't mentally ready for whatever reason, then he just shouldn't be there.

pukunui

Because IMO he is often judged by a different set of standards to other players. 
Im not saying he is in form but people are suggesting him James Lowe as a replacement when arguably Lowe has been fucking up more often. If Savea had the shockers that Lowe had in the last few games (and he has) people would call for him to be dropped (like they are) yet Lowe does it and people are calling for him to be promoted to the ABs, even as a starter.

Frye

Cory Jane seems like a pretty good candidate right about now.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="603641" data-time="1470529821">
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Because IMO he is often judged by a different set of standards to other players. 
Im not saying he is in form but people are suggesting him James Lowe as a replacement when arguably Lowe has been fucking up more often. If Savea had the shockers that Lowe had in the last few games (and he has) people would call for him to be dropped (like they are) yet Lowe does it and people are calling for him to be promoted to the ABs, even as a starter.
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I think you've got it about face.
 
Lowe's had two bad games this season (and in those he did some good stuff but it was handling etc that let him down) and when he did he got called on it.
 
You're wanting to give Savea a pass because of how good he was two years ago. Lets face some facts here, the final of Super rugby was last night and his coach didn't risk him for 80 minutes of that game, instead picking a journeyman in his place. He's still in the ABs. He's getting judged on a Julian Savea standard.

pukunui

I just think it is worth trying to work with him while there is a lack of good alternatives. The default selection until someone better comes along if you want to put it that way. 
Lowe bottled it at the pointy end of the season and during the season was regularly called for appearing to shy away from contact. Thats not what we need from an AB 11. 
If Piutau was still here in the form he was in last year then Savea would be gone.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="603644" data-time="1470531422">
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I just think it is worth trying to work with him while there is a lack of good alternatives. The default selection until someone better comes along if you want to put it that way. 
Lowe bottled it at the pointy end of the season and during the season was regularly called for appearing to shy away from contact. Thats not what we need from an AB 11. 
If Piutau was still here in the form he was in last year then Savea would be gone.
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Savea has been bottling it two seasons, and was bottling it the season he made the ABs, but the ABs took the raw talent and ironed out the issues (for four seasons or so before he lost his form) - that was all fans of Lowe were asking. 
 
Going by your comments looks like you're advocating for Jason Woodward to be starting because it appears he's currently a better 11 than Savea.

pukunui

The coaches obviously don't see the same potential in Lowe. I trust their judgement. 
Im not advocating anything. I think Naholo will start but im glad the coaches aren't as eager to dump Savea as some on here. 
If he doesn't come right within the squad and someone else demands selection then its bye bye Savea.

Stargazer

My guess (and not more than that) is that the AB selectors don't think Lowe is AB material and will keep working with Savea until a better option is available.
 
From a RWC 2019 perspective, they can afford to do that if they think that better option will present itself within the next 2 years. You only have to look at some of the up-and-coming outside backs in the NZU20s (or those who just missed out) and it's not difficult to see that a couple of these young lads may significantly progress and/or develop further in Super Rugby and be ready for AB selection in 2018. 
 
For (2016 and) 2017, they probably think NMS, Naholo & Savea, with B Smith another wing option (and BB if they really have to) will be good enough for the Lions tour. And who knows, there may be a bolter coming out of 2017 Super Rugby, the same way Naholo surprised everyone in 2015. It may be Nanai; it may be someone else we're not even thinking of right now.

Bones

Why is Lowe being ramped up when they're obviously more interested in Nanai? And rightly so.

Wurzel

Yup, Nanai is their man. The selectors have a got a good track record of tacking standout Super Rugby fullbacks and turning them into Test quality wings (Jane, Smith, NMS)

DMX

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="603645" data-time="1470531642">
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Savea has been bottling it two seasons, and was bottling it the season he made the ABs, but the ABs took the raw talent and ironed out the issues (for four seasons or so before he lost his form) - that was all fans of Lowe were asking. 
 
Going by your comments looks like you're advocating for Jason Woodward to be starting because it appears he's currently a better 11 than Savea.
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I am a fan of Lowe, but I would acknowledge two errors late in season hurt him, but still clearly has a wider skillset and workrate, than Savea. If Savea had had the same season as Lowe we would not even talk about Savea. Lowe and Nanai are viable options and Moala as a wing option means you could find room for MacKenzie in the squad. Would also say that Sam MacNicol could be banging on the door very soon. Really think about it how bad do you have to be to be dropped from a Championship team and be one of the highest scoring ABs of all time?

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="603760" data-time="1470557743">
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I am a fan of Lowe, but I would acknowledge two errors late in season hurt him, but still clearly has a wider skillset and workrate, than Savea. If Savea had had the same season as Lowe we would not even talk about Savea. Lowe and Nanai are viable options and Moala as a wing option means you could find room for MacKenzie in the squad. Would also say that Sam MacNicol could be banging on the door very soon. Really think about it how bad do you have to be to be dropped from a Championship team and be one of the highest scoring ABs of all time?
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I think everyone would - worst time for it, although he may not even be on the selectors radar. I think most people would think Nanai is a good option. As for McNicol I'd like to see a storming NPC and then a whole good super season first, because he was pretty average for much of the first half, but you tend to forget how young he is.
 
As for Savea, it would be nice if he could get back into form, but he's well off it at the moment.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="603645" data-time="1470531642">
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Savea has been bottling it two seasons, and was bottling it the season he made the ABs, but the ABs took the raw talent and ironed out the issues (for four seasons or so before he lost his form) - that was all fans of Lowe were asking. 
 
Going by your comments looks like you're advocating for Jason Woodward to be starting because it appears he's currently a better 11 than Savea.
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Savea was really good in the 2012 Super Rugby season, if a bit raw. 2011 he was terrible but that was a bad year for the 'canes.
 
I agree with you in regards to Lowe. He could have helped his chances but he was at least considered good enough to start for his team.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="603825" data-time="1470567009">
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Savea was really good in the 2012 Super Rugby season, if a bit raw. 2011 he was terrible but that was a bad year for the 'canes.
 
I agree with you in regards to Lowe. He could have helped his chances but he was at least considered good enough to start for his team.
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Does that matter? All of Cane, TKB, Romano, Faumuina, Moala, Crockett, Crotty, Moody, Harris, Ofa and Squire have had extended periods, either this season or in recent ones, where they haven't be automatic starters yet they are selected without too much fuss. 
I don't think Hansen gives a shit what a lower level coach does with selections if he thinks he can get the best out of a player.

Higgins

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="603846" data-time="1470574568">
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Does that matter? All of Cane, TKB, Romano, Faumuina, Moala, Crockett, Crotty, Moody, Harris, Ofa and Squire have had extended periods, either this season or in recent ones, where they haven't be automatic starters yet they are selected without too much fuss. 
I don't think Hansen gives a shit what a lower level coach does with selections if he thinks he can get the best out of a player.
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He would need the power of a god to get Ofa Tuungafasi competitive against the better props going round.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="603847" data-time="1470576152">
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He would need the power of a god to get Ofa Tuungafasi competitive against the better props going round.
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Well yeah, some of those selections are debatable but more for the player quality rather than the fact that they aren't starting for their Super teams.

pakman

When the AB's reassemble on Thursday, wouldn't be surprised to see Todd and Hames there as back up/ potentially in Sydney 23, and Seta/DMac to make up numbers.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="603846" data-time="1470574568">
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Does that matter? All of Cane, TKB, Romano, Faumuina, Moala, Crockett, Crotty, Moody, Harris, Ofa and Squire have had extended periods, either this season or in recent ones, where they haven't be automatic starters yet they are selected without too much fuss. 
I don't think Hansen gives a shit what a lower level coach does with selections if he thinks he can get the best out of a player.
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The problem being even he hasn't been able to get the best out of Savea for a while now.

The Silver Fern

TRC squad