Julian Savea

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="588776" data-time="1466101604">
<div>Surely not all washed up at 25 ?? 
that would be pretty bizarre really 
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</blockquote>
 
Cully stopped being Cully at 25.
Joe Roks last good season was 2009 and he was 26.
Goldie's was 26 for most of the 1999 season.
More recently we had Dagg written off 18 months ago at 26.
Sivi started a bit later, but essentially lasted 4-5 years at the top from 2005-09/10. After that he was behind guys like Kahui, Toeava, Gear and even SBW probably in 2011.
 
A tad early, but hardly bizzare - especially if the issues are mental and RWC success related (in addition to whatever personal issues). That's not to say he won't return for spot starts - all those did. He is still a serviceable international wing in his current form. He would start for most other countries. Problem with the All Blacks is that there is always someone ready to take your spot.
 
Could also strike back too, Mils, Howlett, Jane and Ben Smith all had different career trajectories, but if you compare that group to the above one seems to rely much more heavily on physical gifts than the other.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588778" data-time="1466104012">
<div>
He is still a serviceable international wing in his current form. 
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</blockquote>
 
Serviceable? Let's be honest, his age isn't making him lose pace, he hasn't been injured, and he's still big strong and fast. The only challenge he has right now is his mental space, and the team is (rightly) getting his head right before he comes back. 
 
To describe someone with a strike rate of 39/42 as 'serviceable' is frankly astonishing. He is serviceable on defence, but that's his only basic non-strength (not weakness). And again, that's all mental.
 
The honest thing is we don't know what is going on in his head right now. FFS, his mum may be sick, may have marital issues, may have kids with problems - we just don't know, and frankly I don't care much. The coaches know this shit and they're addressing it. I'm very relaxed about giving him time off, getting back to destructive Savea and then bringing him back.

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588778" data-time="1466104012">Cully stopped being Cully at 25. Joe Roks last good season was 2009 and he was 26. Goldie's was 26 for most of the 1999 season. More recently we had Dagg written off 18 months ago at 26. Sivi started a bit later, but essentially lasted 4-5 years at the top from 2005-09/10. After that he was behind guys like Kahui, Toeava, Gear and even SBW probably in 2011. A tad early, but hardly bizzare - especially if the issues are mental and RWC success related (in addition to whatever personal issues). That's not to say he won't return for spot starts - all those did. He is still a serviceable international wing in his current form. He would start for most other countries. Problem with the All Blacks is that there is always someone ready to take your spot. Could also strike back too, Mils, Howlett, Jane and Ben Smith all had different career trajectories, but if you compare that group to the above one seems to rely much more heavily on physical gifts than the other.</blockquote> yeah i guess so, just seems young these days , when a lot of guys are making their debut around that age

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="588776" data-time="1466101604">Going to be interesting to see what happens from here , 
 
Has been a fantastic player IMO, best winger in the world, 
 
Surely not all washed up at 25 ?? 
 
that would be pretty bizarre really </blockquote>As nzzp said it doesn't appear to be physical, his head is not in the game. Hopefully he can sort that out and concentrate back on his rugby soon. If his out of rugby problems are unable to be resolved, especially if it's family stuff, there might be an outside risk of him pulling the pin and taking an overseas contract just to escape. Which would be a mistake

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="588785" data-time="1466107701">
<div>
yeah i guess so, just seems young these days , when a lot of guys are making their debut around that age
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</blockquote>
 
Jonah was gone before he hit 27, Tana realized he couldn't cut it out wide anymore and very wisely moved to centre.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="588792" data-time="1466110443">
<div>
Jonah was gone before he hit 27, Tana realized he couldn't cut it out wide anymore and very wisely moved to centre.
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</blockquote>
 
Dougie went on to 29 by the look, and could have kept going. I think a lot depends on your game - Jeff Wilson perfected the chip'n'chase by the end of his career, didn't rely on out and out speed. He looks like 29 as well... so Savea's got at least 4 more year.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Howlett'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Howlett</a>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Wilson_(sportsman)'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Wilson_(sportsman)</a>

taniwharugby

Hansen says his weight and fitness is where they want him, so is it just form or mental...I'd say the latter given the AB coaches have often persevered with an out of form player to play them into form.
 
Hansen has always been a bit of a straight shooter in the media, I think he'd say nothing before fudging something.

SammyC

I remember reading somewhere that the prime age for an Olympic Sprinter is 25.4. After that it's pretty rare for people to get any faster.
 
Obviously there are exceptions like Gatland (steroids) and Bolt.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="588806" data-time="1466111836">
<div>
I remember reading somewhere that the prime age for an Olympic Sprinter is 25.4. After that it's pretty rare for people to get any faster.
 
Obviously there are exceptions like Gatland (steroids) and Bolt (possibly drugged).
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FIFY

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="588808" data-time="1466111940">
<div>
FIFY
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I wanted to write that, but the forum police have constantly called me up when I've made similar comments in the drug cheating russians thread

MN5

Makes Scotlands Simon Danielli glorious recall to the Scotland side at 32 in 2011 all the more impressive. Sean Lamont running down the flank at THIRTY FOUR in the last World Cup ? Inspirational !

Smudge

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="588806" data-time="1466111836">
<div>
I remember reading somewhere that the prime age for an Olympic Sprinter is 25.4. After that it's pretty rare for people to get any faster.
 
Obviously there are exceptions like Gatland (steroids) and Bolt.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Someone better tell Wazza he's taking the wrong batch:
 
<img src="https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Sport/Pix/columnists/2014/11/25/1416936453009/Warren-Gatland-Wales-head-012.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=6313aa07c2ede6e34288117cfaca797d" alt="Warren-Gatland-Wales-head-012.jpg?w=620&">

kiwiinmelb

I think what was noticeable for me with Julian , just before the decline, 
Was how all rounded his game had become since the early years , he wasn't just the finisher anymore , 
Was good under the high ball , good defensively , off loaded and linked well with his supports , 
For an X factor type , he was pretty reliable I thought

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="588817" data-time="1466114680">
<div>
I think what was noticeable for me with Julian , just before the decline, 
Was how all rounded his game had become since the early years , he wasn't just the finisher anymore , 
Was good under the high ball , good defensively , off loaded and linked well with his supports , 
For an X factor type , he was pretty reliable I thought
</div>
</blockquote>
Rokocoko was like that too if I recall.

pukunui

Joe Roks bulked up significantly which moved his game away from what made him so dangerous early on. ie gas and swerve out wide. So while he was still quality and would make it over the gain line his strike rate dropped. A similar thing happened with tuqiri going from skinny fast guy in league to bulked up slower less good guy in rugby. 
I think its way too early to write off Savea. Don't really think comparisons with guys who started their careers at the dawn of proffessional rugby is much use either. Conditioning is completely different now.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="588837" data-time="1466119623">
<div>
Joe Roks bulked up significantly which moved his game away from what made him so dangerous early on. ie gas and swerve out wide. So while he was still quality and would make it over the gain line his strike rate dropped. A similar thing happened with tuqiri going from skinny fast guy in league to bulked up slower less good guy in rugby. 
I think its way too early to write off Savea. Don't really think comparisons with guys who started their careers at the dawn of proffessional rugby is much use either. Conditioning is completely different now.
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</blockquote>
 
Tuqiri was always pretty big, never Joe Roks lean but never quite got "Sailor" big ( he was another who got a bit too solid for his own good )
 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure if John Hart had his time again he would have gone 15 Cullen 14 Wilson 13 Umaga and 11 Lomu......but can anyone remember what possessed him into thinking Cullen would be great at centre ? His strengths as a player were always tucking the ball and having a go, even in the late 90s I'm pretty sure Umaga had played at 13 a bit for Wellington.

pukunui

Im talking early league days when he made his name. He was significantly smaller than his rugby days. Almost hard to recognise him. Skinny probably not the right word though. Slim maybe.

Dice

Roks' attacking ability started to fade after he picked up that knee injury around 2006. That's around the time the tries started to dry up.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="588792" data-time="1466110443">
<div>
Jonah was gone before he hit 27, Tana realized he couldn't cut it out wide anymore and very wisely moved to centre.
</div>
</blockquote>
It was Jonah's kidneys that poked his career

Rancid Schnitzel

Savea rocking up to the start of the season looking pregnant and then having to work like a maniac to get fit must take its toll and affect the rest of his game. Imagine having to try and lose shit loads of weight and focussing on elite rugby skills at the same time. 
It's ridiculously unprofessional and he should not have been picked, regardless of past deeds. Just like Weepu he seems to have entered some kind of comfort zone since becoming an established AB and feels compelled to fund the retirement of some lucky KFC franchise owner. 
I hope he gets his shit together because he's brilliant when on song. I don't think he's lost his ability, but he needs to have everything (mind and body) at 100% and he's clearly nowhere near that right now.

The Silver Fern

Julian Savea