Exodus 2017
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@No-Quarter said in Exodus 2017:
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
NQ - I reckon Ardie's lacking a bit of height and weight to be a genuine option as an international No. 8. No matter how much energy he brings it's hard to see him as a bullocking, hard driving 8 that I like to see. Even as an openside flanker I reckon Hansen would like to see him a bit bigger a la Cane and McCaw.
Lacking a bit in height probably, but in a similar mold to Rodders who did a great job for us over a number of years. He made some very strong runs when he came on in the weekend, his leg drive is out of this world, so I'm not sold that he doesn't have the physicality required with ball in hand. The wide ranging game suits him a lot better then staying tight and smacking blokes backwards like Cane and Kaino.
When I'm being really harsh, I reckon the Richie, Jerry, Rodders combo was one of the primary reasons we weren't quite as dominant in Henry's first cycle as we have been subsequently.
The lineout was often a substantial problem that we blamed our throwers for. But the advent of Kaino and Read as tall loose forward options almost immediately solved the woes of Anton and Kevvy (especially).
I'm expecting Codie Taylor and the coaches to rectify some significant lineout problems we had last Saturday - it was an area we should have dominated and didn't. I'll be very disappointed if that isn't a significant point of AB improvement in Wellington giving us quite a bit more first phase possession.
Need to give Gatland some significant credit for winning this phase with a shorter lineout.
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NZ depth at 1st Five eight is ridiculous.
The biggest concern is at tighthead where Faumuina's departure leaves a big hole. Ofa T has got the selectors confidence but he is a serious drop of quality despite being OK in his few appearances under the black jersey. Laulala hasn't stepped up this year. He was better with the Crusaders than he is with the Chiefs. Maybe his knee hasn't healed completely ?
Let's see how JTA performs tonight. The EOYT will be a good occasion to test NZ depth there with two tests against France in 4 days. This means that three (at least) or four THPs will be named. -
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Tim said in Exodus 2017:
Also, how do people rate the Highlander's props?
The only one I know much about is Halanukonuka, who is hard to budge in the scrum, but not eligible for NZ.
Aki Seiuli looked pretty useful at LH when he came on for Clan against Lions.
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@pakman said in Exodus 2017:
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Tim said in Exodus 2017:
Also, how do people rate the Highlander's props?
The only one I know much about is Halanukonuka, who is hard to budge in the scrum, but not eligible for NZ.
Aki Seiuli looked pretty useful at LH when he came on for Clan against Lions.
Seiuli is brilliant ball in hand.
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@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
I don't think we need to worry about our no. 10 stocks. Behind BB, Cruden and Sops, we have potential in:
Dmac (22) and Mo'unga (23)
Next, you have Black (22) and Hunt (22).
U20s: Perofeta (20) and Falcon (20)
At NZ Schools level: McClutchie (17, Hastings BHS) & probably more talentEdited to add their age.
worry? No. By having a player the quality of Sopoaga not even make our test 23 we are in a better spot than basically everyone.
But counting the rest of that list as some kind of measure of depth? A guy who hasn't looked good at 10, and miserably failed his last audition. A guy who has had a breakout season in Super rugby behind a great pack, but battled when the pack got under pressure. Then guys from the 20s, and we've over-rated guys based on that tournament more than once. None of those guys would make the Wallabies 23 as 10s FFS.
Next year, we are an injury from one of them being in the 23.
Yes, this is depth; maybe not for now, but for years to come. I prefer looking ahead; short-term thinking hasn't brought the ABs to the top where they are now. This list is our top "production line". Only Dmac and Mo'unga are players they'll look at in the first two years. I don't think we can dismiss those two as prospects for the near future based on one game against the Lions, esp not Mo'unga who has never played or even trained at test level, unlike Dmac. Both are excellent, young SR players who may develop into good or even great Abs, although I'd prefer Dmac at fullback. Until they are, I expect that players like TJP and, possibly, Dagg and Jordie will cover 10 in emergencies. I have faith in our coaches and they have had plenty of time to think about solutions for those emergencies; I'm sure they have thought about it thoroughly and have a plan.
@KiwiMurph I thought about adding Plummer, but didn't because I don't know what the reason was why he didn't make the U20s, not even the wider training camps late last year (while other 18 year-olds did). He wasn't injured. He may make the U20s next year though.
You can't tell an Anscombe from a Barrett at that level.
Honestly. Is Plummer, or Falcon a Dan Kirkpatrick or a Dan Carter? It's silly including them in any discussion at this stage.
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@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@KiwiMurph I thought about adding Plummer, but didn't because I don't know what the reason was why he didn't make the U20s, not even the wider training camps late last year (while other 18 year-olds did). He wasn't injured. He may make the U20s next year though.
Plummer had shoulder surgery after the NZ Schools campaign last year and is targetting next year's U20 team.
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@Rapido said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2017:
@Stargazer said in Exodus 2017:
I don't think we need to worry about our no. 10 stocks. Behind BB, Cruden and Sops, we have potential in:
Dmac (22) and Mo'unga (23)
Next, you have Black (22) and Hunt (22).
U20s: Perofeta (20) and Falcon (20)
At NZ Schools level: McClutchie (17, Hastings BHS) & probably more talentEdited to add their age.
worry? No. By having a player the quality of Sopoaga not even make our test 23 we are in a better spot than basically everyone.
But counting the rest of that list as some kind of measure of depth? A guy who hasn't looked good at 10, and miserably failed his last audition. A guy who has had a breakout season in Super rugby behind a great pack, but battled when the pack got under pressure. Then guys from the 20s, and we've over-rated guys based on that tournament more than once. None of those guys would make the Wallabies 23 as 10s FFS.
Next year, we are an injury from one of them being in the 23.
Yes, this is depth; maybe not for now, but for years to come. I prefer looking ahead; short-term thinking hasn't brought the ABs to the top where they are now. This list is our top "production line". Only Dmac and Mo'unga are players they'll look at in the first two years. I don't think we can dismiss those two as prospects for the near future based on one game against the Lions, esp not Mo'unga who has never played or even trained at test level, unlike Dmac. Both are excellent, young SR players who may develop into good or even great Abs, although I'd prefer Dmac at fullback. Until they are, I expect that players like TJP and, possibly, Dagg and Jordie will cover 10 in emergencies. I have faith in our coaches and they have had plenty of time to think about solutions for those emergencies; I'm sure they have thought about it thoroughly and have a plan.
@KiwiMurph I thought about adding Plummer, but didn't because I don't know what the reason was why he didn't make the U20s, not even the wider training camps late last year (while other 18 year-olds did). He wasn't injured. He may make the U20s next year though.
You can't tell an Anscombe from a Barrett at that level.
Honestly. Is Plummer, or Falcon a Dan Kirkpatrick or a Dan Carter? It's silly including them in any discussion at this stage.
The list I made of our no. 10s "production line" was only to show the potential there is in this position, from players in or approaching the AB fringes (Dmac & Mo'unga) ready to be looked at, trained and tested for higher honours (maybe via an apprenticeship), to players who may (or may not) develop so well that they could become AB prospects in some years (separating them from the players where you don't see that potential ... yet). I see U20s players who have performed well in their black jerseys (eg, Perofeta & Falcon) definitely as "players to watch", but you have misunderstood the reason for my list if you think I see all players on that list as future All Blacks. The younger and inexperienced the players, the more they will still need time, development, training and game time at Mitre 10 Cup & SR level before any conclusion can be drawn, although in case of Jordie it wasn't actually that much (and before people misunderstand me, no, not all of them are necessarily of the same level as Jordie ... yet). If you think it's silly to follow and discuss these players, that's fine with me. Then don't join the discussion about these players.
I think coaches are different. Boyd was at the Super 8 (or was it Top 4?) Schools finals last year; Scott Robertson was at the U19 tournament in Taupo; I'm sure it wasn't just for their entertainment. Other SR coaches probably were there as well. Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if the AB coaches have already become (or be made) aware of a player like Aumua, and will be interested in how he continues his rugby development. Who knows, they may even watch footage of the NZU20s games, once the dust of the Lions tour has settled.
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Mark Reddish has retired due to concussion.
Reddish retires from rugby
Harlequins lock Mark Reddish has announced his retirement from the game due to concussion, ending his career after five games at the club.
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NZ Herald repeats the Fekitoa/Toulon rumour today:
Malakai Fekitoa is almost certainly out of the picture after apparently signing with Toulon in France, but Laumape proved he has a big future with his performance in his first test start, and then there is Sonny Bill Williams, Ryan Crotty and Anton Lienert-Brown to consider.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11888417
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The All Blacks midfielder, not selected in the squad for the recent Lions series but called in for the third test by coach Steve Hansen after the hamstring injury to Ryan Crotty and Sonny Bill Williams' four-match suspension, has signed a contract with Toulon and will leave after he sees out the season with the Highlanders.
The 25-year-old's decision was made on the basis that he wasn't included in Hansen's original squad, but after being recalled, and playing 14 minutes off the reserves bench at Eden Park, the Herald understands he may now be regretting his decision.
Whether he will want to, or is able to, follow the example of his Highlanders and All Blacks teammate Waisake Naholo and backtrack on his decision remains to be seen. Naholo signed with Clermont, another French club, in 2015 before changing his mind and making Hansen's World Cup squad.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11888627
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@Bones said in Exodus 2017:
I'm not as down on Fekitoa as most, but if that is true, fuck his regrets.
+1. We see what transpires but if it was toys out of cot then later regret...
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@Billy-Tell I'm sure he won't mind counting out his regrets in euros.
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NZ Herald got it wrong again.
All Black Malakai Fekitoa will probably leave New Zealand this year, and probably for Toulon, but his agent says the midfielder hasn't signed a contract yet and could in fact stay.
The Herald reported yesterday that Fekitoa, 25, had agreed to move to the French club but was having second thoughts, but his agent Craig Innes has insisted the Highlanders player hadn't signed anything.
"He hasn't actually signed a contract and he hasn't agreed to anything," Innes said.
"Nothing has been sent back to Toulon. I'm not denying that there have been talks [with other clubs] but he is going through a process."
Asked whether it was a possible that Fekitoa could sign a new contract with New Zealand Rugby, Innes said: "At this stage anything is a possibility.
Innes added that should Fekitoa leave, he would do so after playing for Auckland in the national provincial championship.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11888906
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@Tim who knows who to believe...I know a few years ago when it was being reported Ranger was leaving (after he had a superb season) he and his manager both claimed he hadn't signed, but he had.
Maybe Malakai is waiting until TRC squad is named before the 'official' official announcement
