Exodus 2017
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@Bovidae said in Exodus 2017:
@pukunui said in Exodus 2017:
Except TNW hasn't directly contributed to a player who plays in a position of relatively poor depth for the ABs and is clearly up to super rugby level signing overseas because he was overlooked for the squad.
I don't think it's simple as that. Luatua is leaving, and it's got nothing to do with a lack of opportunity at Super rugby level. Nasi Manu went overseas a few years ago himself.
Of course I would prefer that Douglas stayed in NZ - he plays for the team I support. But in hindsight Whetu was probably too quick to sign the first professional contract put in front of him. I can certainly understand why he did, but unfortunately it was from an overseas club.
That is the point, we struggle to hold on to these guys as it is because the pull of money from up north is so strong.
We need as many NZ qualified players staying as we can get. Giving NZ super rugby spots, particularly as starters, to international players reduces our ability to do that. -
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@antipodean "That guy who reads the final copy, before it goes to print...why do we need him?"
The irony is that the ODT is one of the few papers in the country to still have "check subs" (to check both the writer and the sub-editor's work). I'm guessing it was a case of pressing "Replace" rather than "Ignore" on autopilot (reference fully intended) when they ran the spellcheck. It's happened before in the same esteemed publication.
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@Bovidae said in Exodus 2017:
I don't think a NZ-born Japanese player is any different to selecting Samoan/Fijian/Tongan/Australian players in your squad. None are eligible to play for NZ if that is your criteria for selection.
So either NZR says that all NZ Super rugby players have to be eligible to play for the ABs with no exceptions, or you allow 1 or 2 per squad, as is the rule currently.
The NZRU have to be quite careful to stay inside employment law. To cut out Leitch on the basis that he isn't eligible for the All Blacks isn't going to fly legally, I fear, because the job is #8 at the Chiefs, not at the All Blacks. (This assumes he still has a NZ passport.)
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@Chester-Draws be interesting to see how that would play out, as I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day, selecting a rugby team is pretty subjective, I mean the fact we have a forum dedicated to talking rugby and discussing said selections and games says it all really.
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@Chester-Draws Will be interesting to know that. Leitch is a Japanese citizen and has been for some years. Japan's nationality laws are quite clear, if you naturalise you have to give up your original citizenship.
Will be interesting to see if Leitch has actually taken that step though, or whether or not Japan has turned a blind eye given he represents them.
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@Chester-Draws said in Exodus 2017:
@Bovidae said in Exodus 2017:
I don't think a NZ-born Japanese player is any different to selecting Samoan/Fijian/Tongan/Australian players in your squad. None are eligible to play for NZ if that is your criteria for selection.
So either NZR says that all NZ Super rugby players have to be eligible to play for the ABs with no exceptions, or you allow 1 or 2 per squad, as is the rule currently.
The NZRU have to be quite careful to stay inside employment law. To cut out Leitch on the basis that he isn't eligible for the All Blacks isn't going to fly legally, I fear, because the job is #8 at the Chiefs, not at the All Blacks. (This assumes he still has a NZ passport.)
Doesn't work like that. I'll post it up later on, but Leitch would be classed as an overseas player same as Tanaka because he doesn't play under a full NZ Rugby contract.
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@Crucial what about TNW, who has played in NZ pretty much all his life, had the Olympic loophole to play for Samoa...but I guess, being able to prove he is not being offered a contract solely on the basis of who he plays for would be tough to wouldnt it?
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It's been a while since I looked at the contract info on the NZRPA, but I see it has all been revamped and they have included a summary document as well so you don't have to read through all of the legalese http://www.nzrpa.co.nz/pdf/Collective-Agreement-and-MOU-Summary.pdf
This is the key part you guys are after
- A Super Rugby squad can only include (subject to certain
parameters) up to three non NZ eligible Players
Also this for some players (not Leitch or TNW obviously)
- Only NZ eligible Players who have played 80 Super rugby games
and/or 40 test matches, can look to negotiate the ability to play
overseas and return for Super Rugby only.
- A Super Rugby squad can only include (subject to certain
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@Crucial said in Exodus 2017:
It's been a while since I looked at the contract info on the NZRPA, but I see it has all been revamped and they have included a summary document as well so you don't have to read through all of the legalese http://www.nzrpa.co.nz/pdf/Collective-Agreement-and-MOU-Summary.pdf
This is the key part you guys are after
- A Super Rugby squad can only include (subject to certain
parameters) up to three non NZ eligible Players
Also this for some players (not Leitch or TNW obviously)
- Only NZ eligible Players who have played 80 Super rugby games
and/or 40 test matches, can look to negotiate the ability to play
overseas and return for Super Rugby only.
Those parameters are quite interesting, and distinguish between:
*players who are not NZ eligible, but are eligible to represent a Pacific Island nation, and
*players who are not NZ eligible but are eligible to represent another foreign International team other than a Pacific Island nation.Other parameters relate to their playing position.
See section 45 in this document: http://www.nzrpa.co.nz/pdf/2016-NZR-RPC-CEA-DIGITAL.pdf
- A Super Rugby squad can only include (subject to certain
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Yep that has always been the case. No more than two non-eligible, non PI players.
There is an extra position for PI eligible players.Also note the limit on one per position so that we don't end up with blocks.
NZR can also waive these rules if applied for and granted. I guess this would be the case if a long term Super rugby player played for a PI team and their status changed even if they are NZ residents and previously available for NZ selection. This is where the likes of TNW might come in if the Chiefs had filled their overseas quota already. They could apply for dispensation.
It would be pretty tough to not allow a guy that always lived in NZ with his family and only played for a PI country once NZ aspirations had gone. -
Wanganui lock and Meads Cup winner, Gavin Thornbury, is heading for Connacht for next season.
The Kiwi 6'7" lock played a central role in the Meads Cup win, scoring the winning try in the Heartland Championship last year. Thornbury will join a few other Kiwi recruits at the western province with incoming Kiwi coach, Kieran Keane taking over the reins from Pat Lam.
Thornbury, a 23-year old graduate of Blackrock College, Dublin initially joined Leinster but got no game time so he emigrated to New Zealand for six months and played for Border on the Nth Island before a move to the Wanganui provincial team. A move to the Kiwi Exiles team in western Ireland was the next logical move where Thornbury may have to undergo the painful process of becoming an Irishman once again.
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@Pot-Hale said in Exodus 2017:
Wanganui lock and Meads Cup winner, Gavin Thornbury, is heading for Connacht for next season.
The Kiwi 6'7" lock played a central role in the Meads Cup win, scoring the winning try in the Heartland Championship last year. Thornbury will join a few other Kiwi recruits at the western province with incoming Kiwi coach, Kieran Keane taking over the reins from Pat Lam.
Thornbury, a 23-year old graduate of Blackrock College, Dublin initially joined Leinster but got no game time so he emigrated to New Zealand for six months and played for Border on the Nth Island before a move to the Wanganui provincial team. A move to the Kiwi Exiles team in western Ireland was the next logical move where Thornbury may have to undergo the painful process of becoming an Irishman once again.
Irish lad is probably ready for the 6 nations after a couple of campaigns in Heartland rugby. Probably just missed out on a Lions callup.
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@Pot-Hale said in Exodus 2017:
Wanganui lock and Meads Cup winner, Gavin Thornbury, is heading for Connacht for next season.
The Kiwi 6'7" lock played a central role in the Meads Cup win, scoring the winning try in the Heartland Championship last year. Thornbury will join a few other Kiwi recruits at the western province with incoming Kiwi coach, Kieran Keane taking over the reins from Pat Lam.
Thornbury, a 23-year old graduate of Blackrock College, Dublin initially joined Leinster but got no game time so he emigrated to New Zealand for six months and played for Border on the Nth Island before a move to the Wanganui provincial team. A move to the Kiwi Exiles team in western Ireland was the next logical move where Thornbury may have to undergo the painful process of becoming an Irishman once again.
Border?
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@Pot-Hale said in Exodus 2017:
Wanganui lock and Meads Cup winner, Gavin Thornbury, is heading for Connacht for next season.
The Kiwi 6'7" lock played a central role in the Meads Cup win, scoring the winning try in the Heartland Championship last year. Thornbury will join a few other Kiwi recruits at the western province with incoming Kiwi coach, Kieran Keane taking over the reins from Pat Lam.
Thornbury, a 23-year old graduate of Blackrock College, Dublin initially joined Leinster but got no game time so he emigrated to New Zealand for six months and played for Border on the Nth Island before a move to the Wanganui provincial team. A move to the Kiwi Exiles team in western Ireland was the next logical move where Thornbury may have to undergo the painful process of becoming an Irishman once again.
Remember reading about him last year in a piece kinsella did on some young Irish guys playing in NZ. Was a good read. Well done to him on getting a full time pro gig, and getting to travel etc as a means to getting there.
I have a pedantic issue though with the text you have quoted. You don't move move from the Border club to the Wanganui provincial team, you graduate. Border is part of the Wanganui provincial union.
Btw, for Naki locals question. Did Bordr used to be in Taranaki?
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@Rapido said in Exodus 2017:
Btw, for Naki locals question. Did Bordr used to be in Taranaki?
Yes. A quick google shows that the Waverley club had previously played in the Wanganui competition but moved into Taranaki in 1996 when Border was formed through the amalgamation of the Waverley and Patea clubs. They moved back to the Wanganui competition in 2011.
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@Rapido said in Exodus 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in Exodus 2017:
Wanganui lock and Meads Cup winner, Gavin Thornbury, is heading for Connacht for next season.
The Kiwi 6'7" lock played a central role in the Meads Cup win, scoring the winning try in the Heartland Championship last year. Thornbury will join a few other Kiwi recruits at the western province with incoming Kiwi coach, Kieran Keane taking over the reins from Pat Lam.
Thornbury, a 23-year old graduate of Blackrock College, Dublin initially joined Leinster but got no game time so he emigrated to New Zealand for six months and played for Border on the Nth Island before a move to the Wanganui provincial team. A move to the Kiwi Exiles team in western Ireland was the next logical move where Thornbury may have to undergo the painful process of becoming an Irishman once again.
Remember reading about him last year in a piece kinsella did on some young Irish guys playing in NZ. Was a good read. Well done to him on getting a full time pro gig, and getting to travel etc as a means to getting there.
I have a pedantic issue though with the text you have quoted. You don't move move from the Border club to the Wanganui provincial team, you graduate. Border is part of the Wanganui provincial union.
Btw, for Naki locals question. Did Bordr used to be in Taranaki?
My bad writing. None of it is a quote.
