All Blacks EOYT
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@KiwiMurph Because NZR think playing helter-skelter is the only way to get Generation Play Station to watch Test Rugby. Sadly I am beginning to think they are correct.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks EOYT:
Is there a more inane state than the test winning percentage of a player?
Super rugby winning percentage?
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks EOYT:
If Robertsons aim was to rile up blues supporters on the silverfern forum then he’s onto a winner. I’m going to judge the tour on results.
Just like we did about the Rugby Championship. The criticism is not unwarrented.
Shipping 38 points to Argentina is hugely embarassing.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks EOYT:
If Robertsons aim was to rile up blues supporters on the silverfern forum then he’s onto a winner. I’m going to judge the tour on results.
Just like we did about the Rugby Championship. The criticism is not unwarrented.
Shipping 38 points to Argentina is hugely embarassing.
I totally agree. I’m not defending that result. However if we have a successful EOYT then I’ll be happy enough overall for a first year in charge. That is no gimme: France Poms Ireland at home.
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My prediction. 2 out of 5 wins - Japan and Italy being the wins.
England and Ireland will have revenge on their minds. France have our number.
The players can continue losing against the big teams secure in the knowledge that their places are safe.
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I feel dirty, but I have just read a Stuff article on the AB squad and there was not one mention of Sotutu's continued absence, either in the article or in the comments. What's going on over there? Is Razor getting a free ride from the press? Is it just the Fern getting hot under the collar about it?
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The revisionist nonsense with Sotutu on this forum is nuts. One good super rugby season where the next best loose forward trio was a young and inexperienced chiefs trio (except Jacobson) is hardly anything to cry home about.
Remember, Robertson has seven years experience coaching against these players. The two previous play off games against the Crusaders (final and semi final, Sotutu and Akira were treated like literal children by the crusaders forward pack. They were atrocious.
Why would Robertson select a player that has the mental strength of a piece of wet cardboard when he plays a player has big as he is? Sotutu was thrown around like a rag doll by Matera. What do you think would happen against South Africa, England, Ireland etc?
Like Akira, he’s a flat track bully
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
The revisionist nonsense with Sotutu on this forum is nuts. One good super rugby season where the next best loose forward trio was a young and inexperienced chiefs trio (except Jacobson) is hardly anything to cry home about.
Remember, Robertson has seven years experience coaching against these players. The two previous play off games against the Crusaders (final and semi final, Sotutu and Akira were treated like literal children by the crusaders forward pack. They were atrocious.
Why would Robertson select a player that has the mental strength of a piece of wet cardboard when he plays a player has big as he is? Sotutu was thrown around like a rag doll by Matera. What do you think would happen against South Africa, England, Ireland etc?
Like Akira, he’s a flat track bully
Sititi goes alright after getting bullied from pillar to post by Akira and Sotutu in the SR Final this year or does that not count?
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks EOYT:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
The revisionist nonsense with Sotutu on this forum is nuts. One good super rugby season where the next best loose forward trio was a young and inexperienced chiefs trio (except Jacobson) is hardly anything to cry home about.
Remember, Robertson has seven years experience coaching against these players. The two previous play off games against the Crusaders (final and semi final, Sotutu and Akira were treated like literal children by the crusaders forward pack. They were atrocious.
Why would Robertson select a player that has the mental strength of a piece of wet cardboard when he plays a player has big as he is? Sotutu was thrown around like a rag doll by Matera. What do you think would happen against South Africa, England, Ireland etc?
Like Akira, he’s a flat track bully
Sititi goes alright after getting bullied from pillar to post by Akira and Sotutu in the SR Final this year or does that not count?
Clearly not. And NPC form overrides SR form apparently
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
The two previous play off games against the Crusaders (final and semi final, Sotutu and Akira were treated like literal children by the crusaders forward pack. They were atrocious.
That's simply not true when looking at the 2022 Super Rugby Final.
Sotutu was a one man band in that Super Rugby Final at 8 - he got stuck into absolutely everything and was the ones Blues forward who out pointed his opposite despite playing with the beaten pack - remembering it was Cullen Grace's error at the scrum which lead to Finlay Christie's try for the Blues.
No issues with the criticism but let's at least have a little accuracy.
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People remember what they want to remember.
In 2022, the Crusaders line out went amazing / the Blues imploded (running at 47%). Crusaders accordingly had 60% of the ball and territory. That isn't on those two players.
What they did do, was:
Akira Ioane highest number of metres gained (52), off team high 9 carries, with 15 tackles (1 miss) with 1 penalty conceded 1 turnover conceded. Oh, and he had 4 defenders beaten (team high).
Sotutu made 24 tackles (team high) with 1 miss, 36 metres gained off 7 carries, with 9 passes, including 1 defender beaten and 1 offload.
They two of them were awesome, you are talking absolute horseshit.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
The revisionist nonsense with Sotutu on this forum is nuts. One good super rugby season where the next best loose forward trio was a young and inexperienced chiefs trio (except Jacobson) is hardly anything to cry home about.
Remember, Robertson has seven years experience coaching against these players. The two previous play off games against the Crusaders (final and semi final, Sotutu and Akira were treated like literal children by the crusaders forward pack. They were atrocious.
Why would Robertson select a player that has the mental strength of a piece of wet cardboard when he plays a player has big as he is? Sotutu was thrown around like a rag doll by Matera. What do you think would happen against South Africa, England, Ireland etc?
Like Akira, he’s a flat track bully
lets also ignore we've also seen 9 tests this year where we've seen little gelling of the loose forward trio
if the selected guys had all fired (and one wasn;t retiring and the big name very hit and miss) then sure....but the AB's loosies need "something"...and the best No8 (on stats...and you know......awarded SR player of the year) in SR isn;t there....its not revisionist to suggest we should be trying him
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@canefan said in All Blacks EOYT:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks EOYT:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
The revisionist nonsense with Sotutu on this forum is nuts. One good super rugby season where the next best loose forward trio was a young and inexperienced chiefs trio (except Jacobson) is hardly anything to cry home about.
Remember, Robertson has seven years experience coaching against these players. The two previous play off games against the Crusaders (final and semi final, Sotutu and Akira were treated like literal children by the crusaders forward pack. They were atrocious.
Why would Robertson select a player that has the mental strength of a piece of wet cardboard when he plays a player has big as he is? Sotutu was thrown around like a rag doll by Matera. What do you think would happen against South Africa, England, Ireland etc?
Like Akira, he’s a flat track bully
Sititi goes alright after getting bullied from pillar to post by Akira and Sotutu in the SR Final this year or does that not count?
Clearly not. And NPC form overrides SR form apparently
Rob Valentini also got bullied by Akira this year too. Not gonna slag Valentini off though as he's still a World Class player, he just got outplayed by his opposite twice in SR this year, as did Sititi in the SR final. Both fine players however and it doesn't make them any better or worse as players.
People love to find ways not to pick players.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks EOYT:
If Robertsons aim was to rile up blues supporters on the silverfern forum then he’s onto a winner. I’m going to judge the tour on results.
Well I'm judging the RC on the results, worst ever
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That's nonsense. Sotutu has been one of the Blues best players for years - suggesting he has had one good season brings into question your credibility.
As for the 2022 Super Rugby final Ioane and Sotutu were two of the Blues best. The Blues lost it in the hookers, locks and playmakers.
Sotutu
7 Carries
36 Metres
1 Clean Break
1 Defender beaten
8 Passes
1 Offload
24 tackles completed
1 tackle missed
1 turnover won
2 lineouts wonIoane
9 Carries
52 Metres
4 Defenders Beaten
2 passes
15 tackles completed
1 tackle missedMatera
10 Carries
12 Metres
2 lineouts won
2 defenders beaten
11 tackles completed
1 tackle missed -
They both took their games two a new level this year - particularly around the breakdown. Akira outplayed every 6 in Super Rugby this year.
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@African-Monkey so you either go with the young guy who shows some talent or two blokes who spend more time on Instagram than they do training? At least Robertson had the balls with the selections for this one part. Both Sotutu and Akira are brats
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
@African-Monkey so you either go with the young guy who shows some talent or two blokes who spend more time on Instagram than they do training? At least Robertson had the balls with the selections for this one part. Both Sotutu and Akira are brats
They obviously did something right if they managed to play massive parts in winning a SR title, or does that only count if it's the Crusaders? Infact, both of them were probably in career best form this year.
As I said, I like Sititi, but he still got outplayed in the SR final, the same thing that you're picking on Akira and Sotutu for. Slightly hypocritical.
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@brodean both Sotutu and Akira’s breakdown work during those matches was atrocious. They were just as bad if not worst in the semi final where they were completely blown off the park. No one complained when they weren’t selected after that.
Lowering the standards of the opponent doesn’t mean you get a free pass. Both seem fickle, on and off the field.
Sotutu had a chance to prove a point in the NPC. He hasn’t
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@African-Monkey Sititi doesn’t have a history of failures. Akira does, and Sotutu has been pretty bloody average in NPC. There isn’t any consistency. Neither stand out when the team struggles. They haven’t done anything to warrant selection other than be in the biggest forward pack in the competition. Take the advantage away and I suspect the same thing will happen as it always does
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks EOYT:
Robertson mentioned that Hotham is better off playing for the AB XV than just being a squaddie, and that applies to Lakai too.
But if TJP continues to make the test 23 we know we're fucked.
TJS is a clear retrograde step.
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Akira can be talked about to the sun goes down he is gone no point it will not change anything.
And Sotutu is not going to be in this squad under these coaches no matter how many people say he is the greatest no.8.
If is all just fluff they ain’t going to be there.
better move on before it does your head in. -
There breakdown work was fine in the 2022 final. Yes the semi in 2023 wasn't great but you can say that for most of the Crusaders AB forwarders this year their game was flawed across the entire season in many facets.
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Akira never played a bad game for the AB's. His form for the AB's ranged from serviceable, to good, to great.
Scott Barrett has had multiple red cards. Those games were real stinkers. Taylor has had a complete failure in his core role at the lineout. Those games were terrible games.
Those guys, along with Sam Cane have been given multiple opportunities to come right after some real shockers. Cane has played a number of shockers. The whole country was callling for him to be replaced in 2022.
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@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Akira never played a bad game for the AB's. His form for the AB's ranged from serviceable, to good, to great.
Scott Barrett has had multiple red cards. Those games were real stinkers. Taylor has had a complete failure in his core role at the lineout. Those games were terrible games.
Those guys, along with Sam Cane have been given multiple opportunities to come right.
Nope Akira had a couple of not visible on the field games for the AB’s worse than serviceable.
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@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Criticising All Black coaches and selections is a timeless. Don't question our right as All Black fans to spit the dummy.
You can spit it as far as you like it is funny as.
I have done it myself.
But don’t criticise my right to say talking about Akira and Sotutu every minute is boring. -
@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Name them and produce evidence.
Haha hard to find when he is missing,you have given no evidence to say he was excellent or serviceable as you put it.
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@brodean they’re both flat track bully’s who’d rather go on Instagram than work hard. You want more of that in the team?
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
@African-Monkey Sititi doesn’t have a history of failures. Akira does, and Sotutu has been pretty bloody average in NPC. There isn’t any consistency. Neither stand out when the team struggles. They haven’t done anything to warrant selection other than be in the biggest forward pack in the competition. Take the advantage away and I suspect the same thing will happen as it always does
Oh yes, NPC form over super rugby form counts for more, I forgot about that.
Hoskins Sotutu led the Blues comeback when they were well on the backfoot against the Reds this year, coming back from nowhere to win (one or the few times we were under immense pressure this season). He wasn't missing then. Akira was a standout in some awful Blues teams before they turned things around in 2020 (when he got some help) and became competitive again. Ancient history yes, but he stood out in a struggling team for a few years, where you claimed he never did.
Akira's gone, whatever, it is what it is. Sotutu however, as I have stated many times should at least be in the squad, and they should be trying to iron out problems they have with him, not just shaft him into oblivion, he's far too much of a talent to leave in the cold.
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He was given Motm several times in 2021. You know that. It took Frizell 6 years to produce a Motm performance for the AB's after being in and out of the team. Some how that grub was worth persisting with and pursuing still in Japan.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks EOYT:
@African-Monkey so you either go with the young guy who shows some talent or two blokes who spend more time on Instagram than they do training? At least Robertson had the balls with the selections for this one part. Both Sotutu and Akira are brats
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@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:
Akira can be talked about to the sun goes down he is gone no point it will not change anything.
And Sotutu is not going to be in this squad under these coaches no matter how many people say he is the greatest no.8.
If is all just fluff they ain’t going to be there.
better move on before it does your head in.What's the point of having a forum then lol. Forums are for arguing haha, none of it's personal or anything, infact I quite enjoy seeing both sides of the arguments on here, including me currently arguing with @KiwiInLondon haha.
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@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:
And Sotutu is not going to be in this squad under these coaches no matter how many people say he is the greatest no.8.
The question is why
Why are the coaches so blinkered?
Why could Cotter get Akira and Sotutu firing?
I found myself watching Sotutu on the weekend throw offloads and cut out balls wondering what value he could add to a 6-2 bench - wondering how would someone like Rassie utilise his skillset
Meanwhile our bench adds fuck all for the first 5 tests of The Rugby Championship
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:
And Sotutu is not going to be in this squad under these coaches no matter how many people say he is the greatest no.8.
The question is why
Why are the coaches so blinkered?
Why could Cotter get Akira and Sotutu firing?
I found myself watching Sotutu on the weekend throw offloads and cut out balls wondering what value he could add to a 6-2 bench - wondering how would someone like Rassie utilise his skillset
Meanwhile our bench adds fuck all for the first 5 tests of The Rugby Championship
I can’t answer that .
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I'd like players who have been in form and dominating their peers.
BTW Sititi's game against Argentina was a failure. He came on when we were winning and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes. Akira Ioane has never played a game like that for the AB's where he's come on and been a major contributing factor to a loss.
The reality is that Sititi and the other AB loose forwards got dominated in the collisions in that Bok game too - the game where we failed to score a single try for the first time since 2018.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:
And Sotutu is not going to be in this squad under these coaches no matter how many people say he is the greatest no.8.
The question is why
Why are the coaches so blinkered?
Why could Cotter get Akira and Sotutu firing?
I found myself watching Sotutu on the weekend throw offloads and cut out balls wondering what value he could add to a 6-2 bench - wondering how would someone like Rassie utilise his skillset
Meanwhile our bench adds fuck all for the first 5 tests of The Rugby Championship
Exactly. Why not at least try someone like Sotutu off the bench? Especially with the problems we've had with our bench.
Razor is claimed by his fans to get the best out of players, does he not back himself to get the best out of Sotutu?
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@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:
And Sotutu is not going to be in this squad under these coaches no matter how many people say he is the greatest no.8.
The question is why
Why are the coaches so blinkered?
Why could Cotter get Akira and Sotutu firing?
I found myself watching Sotutu on the weekend throw offloads and cut out balls wondering what value he could add to a 6-2 bench - wondering how would someone like Rassie utilise his skillset
Meanwhile our bench adds fuck all for the first 5 tests of The Rugby Championship
I can’t answer that .
I don't expect you too.
I'm talking more about discussion points.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:
Akira can be talked about to the sun goes down he is gone no point it will not change anything.
And Sotutu is not going to be in this squad under these coaches no matter how many people say he is the greatest no.8.
If is all just fluff they ain’t going to be there.
better move on before it does your head in.What's the point of having a forum then lol. Forums are for arguing haha, none of it's personal or anything, infact I quite enjoy seeing both sides of the arguments on here, including me currently arguing with @KiwiInLondon haha.
Of course but the same two players being mention every time gets boring.
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