Too horrific for words - Moko Rangitoheriri case
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<p>I'm morally and intellectually against the death penalty, but when I see a case like this I'm tempted to have them removed from the face of the planet as I would a rabid dog, safe in the knowledge that what I'm disposing of is not in my species and of no benefit to anyone.</p>
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<p>our old neighbours were an interesting family that always had CYFs kids with them...he was an unemployed ex-gang member, she was a stay at home mum (putting it nicely)....</p>
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<p>anyway, they had 3 or 4 kids of thier own, plus got paid for 2 or 3 more CYF kids, of which from time to time were whanau.</p>
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<p>Anywhoo, these kids were in this environment, that was not ideal to say the least. Used to hear screaming arguments at 2 in the morning (if they werent having a 36 hour party of course) had the cops turn up a number of times...both teen daughters now have kids, thier ex-gang member father has attacked on of the girls boy-friends (grand kids dad) after we sold I got call to jury service, turned out the case was for one of the daughters next door, now 16, but for a guy that was being tried for having sex with her when she was 12...now having lived next to them and seeing her actions, beahviour and the way the parents acted with the other kids toward sex, it wa snot surprising she was sexually active at this age, and was the guy I actually felt for as he ruined his life by having sex (over a period of a year) with this kid.</p>
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<p>But CYFs kept letting them look after kids.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="577965" data-time="1462665079">
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<p>I'm morally and intellectually against the death penalty, but when I see a case like this I'm tempted to have them removed from the face of the planet as I would a rabid dog, safe in the knowledge that what I'm disposing of is not in my species and of no benefit to anyone.</p>
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<p>Yep. Anyone who could inflict those kind of injuries on a little boy over and over, then make his 7 year old sister deliver the final kick and tell her she'd killed her baby brother, is not human and shouldn't be treated as such.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="577957" data-time="1462659381"><p>I hope they live long pointless soul crushing lives in prison . Plenty of time to reflect on what got them there and to think about what they are missing out on .</p></blockquote>
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Bogans are never guilty, just ask them -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="577978" data-time="1462667854"><p>
Bogans are never guilty, just ask them</p></blockquote>
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Not that I disagree , these were ferals not bogans.<br><br>
I asked a guy who was a prison guard if the stories about prison rape were true, he reckoned it was mostly consensual . A scumbag like the guy in this story is unlikely to have anyone on the outside either with money to spare of gives a shit about him so if he wants a phone card or something he's going to have to give someone a bj. I'd say that would make you dwell on your life choices . -
<p>It should be unbelievable, but it's not.</p>
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<p>I'm not really against the death penalty, because there's some things that are so heinous that it's deserved. I am against prisoners meting out "justice" because it's fairly likely that the person delivering the beatings is an equally despicable fucker who is getting his/her rocks off by doing so.</p>
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<p>Overall, I'm of the opinion that there should be prison cells that some people are put in - on their own - and then the door is bricked up behind them. Give them a bed, a toilet, a playstation and a slot that their food goes in and they never come out and no-one ever talks to them again.</p> -
<p>done right, you could do it with 1, even cheaper.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="578030" data-time="1462681951">
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<p>Look if you're pro capital punishment be creative, I suggest a weedeater .</p>
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<p>I would float a new daily show to Bravo. Convict Wars, two will enter only one leaves, the survivor becomes the carryover champ.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="578056" data-time="1462690928">
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<p>I would float a new daily show to Bravo. Convict Wars, two will enter only one leaves, the survivor becomes the carryover champ.</p>
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<p>A similar premise on an episode of Black Mirror. The episode is called "White Bear"</p>
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<p>On topic: If ever there was a cause to PROPERLY spend money, train and employ experts and remove this stain on society, it's this insidious treatment of kids that is beginning to slur NZ society.</p>
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<p>Never mind sugar tax, threats of terrorism or the prices of property in Auckland, how about tackling this shit and ridding it?</p> -
<p>Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.</p>
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<p>Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="578067" data-time="1462694775">
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<p>Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?</p>
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<p>These kind of sick fucks can't be redeemed. If ever there was a case for capital punishment this is it</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="578057" data-time="1462691566"><p>
A similar premise on an episode of Black Mirror. The episode is called "White Bear"<br><br>
On topic: If ever there was a cause to PROPERLY spend money, train and employ experts and remove this stain on society, it's this insidious treatment of kids that is beginning to slur NZ society.<br><br>
Never mind sugar tax, threats of terrorism or the prices of property in Auckland, how about tackling this shit and ridding it?</p></blockquote>Beginning to slur NZ society? It's been plauging NZ society since forever - we have some of the worst domestic violence and youth suicide rates in the developed world. The problem has been largely ignored by the government (all of them over the years). The CYFs system is a fucking joke, and doesn't encourage "good" people to enter into it at all.<br><br>
A bloke I work with who is a real good bugger has been providing foster care for 3 kids. It hasn't been easy as the kids have absolutely no trust in anyone and are basically just waiting for the shit to hit the fan like it always has in their lives. The mum is a 20 yr old drug addict and the dad is a 50+ yr old feral bastard.<br><br>
When you provide foster care you don't just take on the kids, you take on their drop kick parents as well. Despite being not fit enough to provide care for their own children (and in this case not even fit enough to be in their company without supervision) they have equal say in everything in the childs life right down to what haircut they get.<br><br>
He is applying for permanent placement at the moment, which means he will lose most of the payments he currently gets for providing foster care which seems silly in itself, and he is currently working through everything with his lawyer to try and remove the rights of the parents so that their relationship with the children is more like extended family, not joint guardianship.<br><br>
The whole thing is messy as fuck and it takes a bloody special person to take it on - you can see why so many of these kids end up in fucking awful households. I will be interested to see what the government actually does with their big review, as it is about 40 years overdue at least.<br><br>
The problem with helping these kids is resources at the end of the day. If you don't have decent people wanting to care for them then there's fuck all the police or CYFs workers can do. If you see a kid in a shit situation what do you do? Take them out of that only for them to be put into a worse situation? It's pretty depressing stuff. My hope is if the government can improve the way the system works then more people will be willing to step in. -
Should be an eye for any eye for these low lives.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="578074" data-time="1462697401">
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<p>Beginning to slur NZ society? It's been plauging NZ society since forever - we have some of the worst domestic violence and youth suicide rates in the developed world. The problem has been largely ignored by the government (all of them over the years). The CYFs system is a fucking joke, and doesn't encourage "good" people to enter into it at all.<br><br>
A bloke I work with who is a real good bugger has been providing foster care for 3 kids. It hasn't been easy as the kids have absolutely no trust in anyone and are basically just waiting for the shit to hit the fan like it always has in their lives. The mum is a 20 yr old drug addict and the dad is a 50+ yr old feral bastard.<br><br>
When you provide foster care you don't just take on the kids, you take on their drop kick parents as well. Despite being not fit enough to provide care for their own children (and in this case not even fit enough to be in their company without supervision) they have equal say in everything in the childs life right down to what haircut they get.<br><br>
He is applying for permanent placement at the moment, which means he will lose most of the payments he currently gets for providing foster care which seems silly in itself, and he is currently working through everything with his lawyer to try and remove the rights of the parents so that their relationship with the children is more like extended family, not joint guardianship.<br><br>
The whole thing is messy as fuck and it takes a bloody special person to take it on - you can see why so many of these kids end up in fucking awful households. I will be interested to see what the government actually does with their big review, as it is about 40 years overdue at least.<br><br>
The problem with helping these kids is resources at the end of the day. If you don't have decent people wanting to care for them then there's fuck all the police or CYFs workers can do. If you see a kid in a shit situation what do you do? Take them out of that only for them to be put into a worse situation? It's pretty depressing stuff. My hope is if the government can improve the way the system works then more people will be willing to step in.</p>
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<p>Informative post NQ, thanks</p>
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<p>I actually tried to downplay my original thoughts and euphemised with "slur" instead. I agree it's a ridiculous situation.</p>
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<p>After reading some other cases (god there are many) I had a local ask "tell me something about your country" - took all I could not to blurt out "oh we're clean and green and we kill our kids at an alarming rate"</p>
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<p>Would this issue be a platform for an election win? Just surmising as for fucks sake, something must be done!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="578067" data-time="1462694775">
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<p>Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?</p>
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<p>Apparently they pleaded guilty to manslaughter rather than stand trial for murder. Weak I know.</p>
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<p>Theres been a new approach to trying to stop the cycle these ferals are in , obviously its going to take a while to see the results <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-09/from-new-zealand-to-pittsburgh-a-moneyball-approach-to-helping-troubled-kids'>http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-09/from-new-zealand-to-pittsburgh-a-moneyball-approach-to-helping-troubled-kids</a></p> -
<p>That is a good initiative. Thanks for the link jegga.</p>
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<p>I guess it comes back to how and why the original systems were set up e.g. the dole was for people who were struggling to get work, but years ago it was just not cool to be on the dole, so you'd find work as soon as possible to get away from the stigma.</p>
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<p>Once it becomes generational welfare, its seen as a way of life. Kids aren't given anything else to aspire to.</p>
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<p>In our two countries, where education is still relatively cheap, its a shorter path to break that cycle for individuals, but at a societal level will take a long time as you say. </p>
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<p>In certain demographics in the US - particularly black communities - it must look fucking impossible.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="578067" data-time="1462694775"><p>
Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.<br><br>
Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?</p></blockquote>
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Murder is hard to prove in these - the Crown has to show that the actions are deliberate with the intention of causing death, or that the actions were so reckless that a reasonable person would have known that a likely outcome was death. In cases of prolonged child abuse leading to death, actually being able to prove that the last actions meet those standards is hard.<br><br>
That said, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is still life imprisonment, so hopefully the judge throws the book at them...