How good are the Boks?
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Would like the opinion of the informed expertise of The Fern, and then everbody else if we don't happen to find him, about just how good the Boks are.
Lot of talk, mainly out of Africa, that they're the best team ever. This seems to be a little bit of over-excitement due to some recent success, but they're certainly No.1 at the moment, and they certainly know how to find a way to win.
Their recent record shows that they remain vulnerable, 3x one point wins in the RWC knockouts, split series with Ireland, two wins by less than a score against No.3. Doesn't scream best team ever to me.
For example, how many of this current team would make an all time Bok team, or be in the running for an all time World XV?
You could mount arguments for Marx, Etzebeth, PSDT, Pollard, Kolbe but I always think to myself there's someone better.
Are they this good currently due to their insane depth, or relative strength of opposition.
Would appreciate genuine thoughts, particularly from our resident Saffas.
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Better than their 2023 RWC squad I'd say. But not the best Bok team ever.
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I'm not sure SA would look at this team the way we look at our RWC2015 team. Yet. Loaded with GOATs in their respective positions (or at least in the conversation), captained by the GOAT, so many test centurions and other players who would walk into AB teams in most eras
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@Duluth said in How good are the Boks?:
I think they can play a lot better than they have in the last two weeks
Agreed. It's as if they were sitting back looking at us and saying to themselves: "Absorb the pressure, keep in touch on the scoreboard and they'll crack on the last quarter"
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@Victor-Meldrew or, circle the wagons until the cavalry arrives 😉
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@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@Victor-Meldrew or, circle the wagons until the
cavalrybomb squad arrives 😉Fixed
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One of the key differences is they try new tactics. As an All Black fan it’s humiliating to be out thought by the old enemy.
Having a winger throw in a lineout so you have more forwards for a drive is clever. Losing Wayne Smith has been like getting a coaching lobotomy.
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I was thinking about this last night.
Boks are a brilliant team full of winners. Top 2 inches are completely sorted. I don’t like the tactics, but they win matches against us with them. We didn’t win all our matches by loads under Richie, England didn’t under Johnson.
But they did win. This team is exactly the same. It’s completely sorted from 1-23.
You can’t get a team to that winning level quickly, it takes time and that’s what Rassie has done under the inspiring leadership of Kolisi.
Give ‘em their dues, it’s their turn.
Which also goes a long way to say how good Ireland are at the moment too. Razors job is yo get them to this level before the 2026 tour and 2027 World Cup. Won’t happen overnight.
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I'm not sure this is their best ever team, but their coach could be their best ever.
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@Kirwan This has been the most disappointing thing for me this year.
Robertson's admirers sold him to us as a winner and an innovator.
I'm willing to give him some benefit of the doubt on the lack of winning this season. But I've see precious little innovation, just reheated Foz-ball.
It feels like we've gone from the most innovative side in Test Rugby in 2004-15 to the most predictable in 2024.
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Very, very good but not best ever
They are a half a yard and few changes in the backs from running rampant IMHO
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Kinda scary they didn't even use guys like RG Snyman, Franco Mostert and Faf de Klerk
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They're a well coached and solid enough team but limited compared to many of the past top ranked teams. They'd be clearly behind the 2009 Springbok team.
The fact is they've had two tight games the past two weeks, at home, vs an All Blacks team that doesn't have a single player I'd consider a starter in an All Blacks professional era team. Very few would even be in consideration for the bench. Two close wins even ignoring some interesting refereeing. If they were worthy of some lofty ranking they'd be putting that team away far more easily.
Aside from the lack of talent and some players clearly past their past, it's hard to overstate how bad some of the tactics from the All Blacks have been-especially late in the game with the ridiculous kicking. Add in poor discipline. So far this year they've eked out wins at home vs England then lost at home to Argentina. The 2005-2006 All Black team as an example would thrash the current one, plain and simple. Beating them narrowly twice at home is no huge achievement.
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The current Springboks isnt just a team but rather a squad. No Bok squad come close to the current Springbok squad, maybe individual players but not as a team.
I would give all the credit to Rassie. Remember he took over in 2018 when we were at our lowest rankings and won the WC a year later. His biggest skill is his out of the box thinking. He always surprise and love challenging just about everything. He dont select players just based on his rugby skills but look at his personality and background.
Rugby grow in South Africa like never before.
