Super Rugby - The Future
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@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
The only probelm with that is union would want to win it and spend all their $ on it (and not developing the grass roots) as they are now.
So it doesn't really achieve much.
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From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
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@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
King Country leaps from Heartland to Super, I love it.
It would be beautiful to see the meltdown.
They play in orange and are called the Vikings.
you need to tag @Nepia whenever you mention the Vikings
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@Kirwan said in NZR review:
From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
Sounds great, but the fundamental role of a PU must change from trying to win the NPC to developing the grass roots.
This is a massive mindset change that isn't going to be achieved by swapping 3 members of a board.
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
@Kirwan said in NZR review:
From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
Sounds great, but the fundamental role of a PU must change from trying to win the NPC to developing the grass roots.
This is a massive mindset change that isn't going to be achieved by swapping 3 members of a board.
Well, if they go to option 1 then no professional players will be in the NPC so if they don't develop grassroots they won't have any players.
Also, the funding is about to be drastically hit as it goes to an amateur comp.
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Which will cause massive numbers of players to leave NZ.
Heck even club players get paid these days, they're all probably going to leave as well.
It's like removing the middle class from society and leaving us with the very rich and very poor, I'm not sure that's going to work well.
(sorry above is my reply to Kirwin - too slow a typer)
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@Windows97 is there that many club players in NZ that would go overseas based on loosing the fee they get?...it would outweigh their 9-5 job?
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@Kiwiwomble I was using it as a point of reference re the clubs, but yeah there would be promising players at club level that would prefer to go oversea's and ply their trade than gamble in the non-paying NPC and at the remote chance of making a SR team.
A lot of players not under the SR umbrella are going to leave. A lot.
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
Which will cause massive numbers of players to leave NZ.
Heck even club players get paid these days, they're all probably going to leave as well.
It's like removing the middle class from society and leaving us with the very rich and very poor, I'm not sure that's going to work well.
(sorry above is my reply to Kirwin - too slow a typer)
We have already seen those players go over the last few years anyway. Off to the USA. They don't play club footy and get to come back back and play provincial rugby. If I was 25 and half decent at rugby, I would be keen to get out and see the world if my talents allowed. Better than sticking around and playing at Petone Rec with the hope of getting a few games for Wellington. Dunedin Club Rugby/Otago rugby is currently getting rorted with probably around 15 to 20 players each weekend ineligible for Otago. Southland has an academey in Dunedin, with about a dozen players and then dirt tracker Highlanders play each week. Our Super Rugby debutants aren't coming through club rugby and pronvincial footy too often anymore. It is all about high school, Super U20 and training with squads. Rugby's biggest threat is not rugby, it is managing the risk of losing its best and brightest to rugby league. It needs to be able to offer kids what rugby league can.
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I mean this isn't rocket science - the main thrust of the financial savings is basically not having the NPC.
It's saving their salaries and those of the support staff intertwined with them.
What are all those people going to do? Do it for free?
No they're going to leave.
How disastrious (or not) this is - I guess we'll find out.
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble I was using it as a point of reference re the clubs, but yeah there would be promising players at club level that would prefer to go oversea's and ply their trade than gamble in the non-paying NPC and at the remote chance of making a SR team.
A lot of players not under the SR umbrella are going to leave. A lot.
i'm just not sure there are that many paying teams out there that will take the guys that couldn't get picked up by 7-8 teams in NZ or their academies, some im sure but i think a lot of guys will realise they were never going to be an AB or even a journeyman super rugby player (because they aren't with those 7-8 teams or their academies) and so at most go have an OE (like the rest of us did)...and then come back and get into their proper career...and play some club rep rugby
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
I mean this isn't rocket science - the main thrust of the financial savings is basically not having the NPC.
It's saving their salaries and those of the support staff intertwined with them.
What are all those people going to do? Do it for free?
No they're going to leave.
How disastrious (or not) this is - I guess we'll find out.
Which is basically the Australian system with nothing in the middle between club and SR,That is not working out to well.
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@Chris said in NZR review:
@Windows97 said in NZR review:
I mean this isn't rocket science - the main thrust of the financial savings is basically not having the NPC.
It's saving their salaries and those of the support staff intertwined with them.
What are all those people going to do? Do it for free?
No they're going to leave.
How disastrious (or not) this is - I guess we'll find out.
Which is basically the Australian system with nothing in the middle between club and SR,That is not working out to well.
that i 100% agree with....but people are convinced NZ is different...so i just want to see something...anything done to stop the slow painful limp into obscurity
@Windows97 said in NZR review:
I mean this isn't rocket science - the main thrust of the financial savings is basically not having the NPC.
It's saving their salaries and those of the support staff intertwined with them.
What are all those people going to do? Do it for free?
No they're going to leave.
How disastrious (or not) this is - I guess we'll find out.
i mean...thats literally how clubs are run, on the back of volunteers...and alot before the game went professional
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@Chris said in NZR review:
@Windows97 said in NZR review:
I mean this isn't rocket science - the main thrust of the financial savings is basically not having the NPC.
It's saving their salaries and those of the support staff intertwined with them.
What are all those people going to do? Do it for free?
No they're going to leave.
How disastrious (or not) this is - I guess we'll find out.
Which is basically the Australian system with nothing in the middle between club and SR,That is not working out to well.
My feeling is that we should develop the super development teams as this level, so that the professional players are still within the same organizations.
So the Bravehearts, Hunters, etc could be the place for us to fill that middle layer and we would be replicating the Oz league model.
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you guys are right, the NPC can't go anywhere without also expanding and extending Super Rugby. Because the current structure makes no sense without it.
We're what, a month from the end of Super Rugby? At which point the best 35-odd players will piss off and be full-time international players, playing 14 games in 5 months. What do you do with the rest of them for that time?
In Australia it is even worse, it's back to club land.
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@gt12 said in NZR review:
So the Bravehearts, Hunters, etc could be the place for us to fill that middle layer and we would be replicating the Oz league model
welcome, brother, to my church
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@mariner4life said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
So the Bravehearts, Hunters, etc could be the place for us to fill that middle layer and we would be replicating the Oz league model
welcome, brother, to my church
Amen.
Cost efficiencies, next league to have players available for Super, develop it as a TV product (maybe make an age limit for a certain number of players so it is primarily young talent), try to start a relationship for crossovers with League 2/3 in Japan - lots of opportunities but still within the franchise system
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@gt12 said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
So the Bravehearts, Hunters, etc could be the place for us to fill that middle layer and we would be replicating the Oz league model
welcome, brother, to my church
Amen.
Cost efficiencies, next league to have players available for Super, develop it as a TV product (maybe make an age limit for a certain number of players so it is primarily young talent), try to start a relationship for crossovers with League 2/3 in Japan - lots of opportunities but still within the franchise system
Big fan of this. The only couple question is around the timing and limiting the impact on community rugby. What is the timings of the secondary competition/games and will it also allow for the Super U20s to be played as well. Would the second tier teams play at the same time as Super. Do we allow our Super players, who aren't All Blacks to go overseas for a three-month stint late in the year?
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so making things "smaller" doesnt work as it doesnt provide the full rugby picture to develop players....this is why i would have loved too hear more about making the current structure or a version of it more popular so we have more income
killing off the NPC and all its history to replace it with academies just makes me a bit sad
