Super Rugby - The Future
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@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Winger you think 12 NPC teams would be cheaper too run than 2-3 super teams?
But you won't get rid of NPC. Or make it totally an amateur competition. All the good players would take off overseas
you've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
there is also the point there isn't an infinite number of professional rugby teams overseas looking for players
2-3 super teams to pick up the next level of players...the finge super players...and the NPC is rep team for club level players
i say this as someone whos preference is to ditch super rugby and ramp up the NPC teams....but i realise thats not happening so have to do something
@Winger said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
you will if it extends into what is now NPC, very few players if any will play both
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
And that is an issue. We need to have a competition where it does feel like it is the focus. Can't be stuck where everyone who is outside the top 35 players sits with their thumbs up their bum during June and July. We need those guys getting footy in. How do we ensure there is rugby at a decent level for the guys above club footy and below international level.
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@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
NZ Rugby needs to be innovative with its provincial rugby approach. Play all games in a location over a weekend. Look at low cost options.
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@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
Whakarua Park in Ruatoria seems more appropriate.
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
too many in what way? they would no longer be funded by NZR...literally having to live within their means, reply on volunteers...so too many for what?
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@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
The only probelm with that is union would want to win it and spend all their $ on it (and not developing the grass roots) as they are now.
So it doesn't really achieve much.
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From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
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@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
King Country leaps from Heartland to Super, I love it.
It would be beautiful to see the meltdown.
They play in orange and are called the Vikings.
you need to tag @Nepia whenever you mention the Vikings
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@Kirwan said in NZR review:
From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
Sounds great, but the fundamental role of a PU must change from trying to win the NPC to developing the grass roots.
This is a massive mindset change that isn't going to be achieved by swapping 3 members of a board.
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
@Kirwan said in NZR review:
From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
Sounds great, but the fundamental role of a PU must change from trying to win the NPC to developing the grass roots.
This is a massive mindset change that isn't going to be achieved by swapping 3 members of a board.
Well, if they go to option 1 then no professional players will be in the NPC so if they don't develop grassroots they won't have any players.
Also, the funding is about to be drastically hit as it goes to an amateur comp.
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Which will cause massive numbers of players to leave NZ.
Heck even club players get paid these days, they're all probably going to leave as well.
It's like removing the middle class from society and leaving us with the very rich and very poor, I'm not sure that's going to work well.
(sorry above is my reply to Kirwin - too slow a typer)
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@Windows97 is there that many club players in NZ that would go overseas based on loosing the fee they get?...it would outweigh their 9-5 job?
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@Kiwiwomble I was using it as a point of reference re the clubs, but yeah there would be promising players at club level that would prefer to go oversea's and ply their trade than gamble in the non-paying NPC and at the remote chance of making a SR team.
A lot of players not under the SR umbrella are going to leave. A lot.
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
Which will cause massive numbers of players to leave NZ.
Heck even club players get paid these days, they're all probably going to leave as well.
It's like removing the middle class from society and leaving us with the very rich and very poor, I'm not sure that's going to work well.
(sorry above is my reply to Kirwin - too slow a typer)
We have already seen those players go over the last few years anyway. Off to the USA. They don't play club footy and get to come back back and play provincial rugby. If I was 25 and half decent at rugby, I would be keen to get out and see the world if my talents allowed. Better than sticking around and playing at Petone Rec with the hope of getting a few games for Wellington. Dunedin Club Rugby/Otago rugby is currently getting rorted with probably around 15 to 20 players each weekend ineligible for Otago. Southland has an academey in Dunedin, with about a dozen players and then dirt tracker Highlanders play each week. Our Super Rugby debutants aren't coming through club rugby and pronvincial footy too often anymore. It is all about high school, Super U20 and training with squads. Rugby's biggest threat is not rugby, it is managing the risk of losing its best and brightest to rugby league. It needs to be able to offer kids what rugby league can.
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I mean this isn't rocket science - the main thrust of the financial savings is basically not having the NPC.
It's saving their salaries and those of the support staff intertwined with them.
What are all those people going to do? Do it for free?
No they're going to leave.
How disastrious (or not) this is - I guess we'll find out.
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble I was using it as a point of reference re the clubs, but yeah there would be promising players at club level that would prefer to go oversea's and ply their trade than gamble in the non-paying NPC and at the remote chance of making a SR team.
A lot of players not under the SR umbrella are going to leave. A lot.
i'm just not sure there are that many paying teams out there that will take the guys that couldn't get picked up by 7-8 teams in NZ or their academies, some im sure but i think a lot of guys will realise they were never going to be an AB or even a journeyman super rugby player (because they aren't with those 7-8 teams or their academies) and so at most go have an OE (like the rest of us did)...and then come back and get into their proper career...and play some club rep rugby
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@Windows97 said in NZR review:
I mean this isn't rocket science - the main thrust of the financial savings is basically not having the NPC.
It's saving their salaries and those of the support staff intertwined with them.
What are all those people going to do? Do it for free?
No they're going to leave.
How disastrious (or not) this is - I guess we'll find out.
Which is basically the Australian system with nothing in the middle between club and SR,That is not working out to well.
