Black Caps v Australia
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Australia:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
Fuck me days
#26 coming right up...
I think the ‘Big Brother’ thing irks me more than the losing to be honest
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Surprised to see this hasnt been mentioned
Ross Taylor isnt the sort of person to make up drama so you have to take this as been very likely to be true.
Even the Aussies were suprised Wagner wasnt picked, yes hes the player he was but then why is Southee captain and being picked... -
It's a bit of a 'no shit sherlock' for me.
Ross Taylor was basically forced to retire, as was Neil Wagner. Because they weren't doing it themselves.
That's not a criticism of them. They're supposed to be competitive and believe in themselves, and it is our 'job' (and the coach and captains and selector's job) to recognise when they can't.
A bit indulgent IMO, both should have been dropped before their last 'farewell series/tests'. Certainly nothing to get knickers in a twist about, IMO, except that the coach/selectors have been too weak to make changes early enough. hence this long, long steady decline & death by a thousand cuts.
Sears is possibly debuting v Australia tomorrow after an injury 'crisis', while Wagner got a soft South Africa C farewell just a fortnight ago, coz feelings. That's dumb IMO. Wasted opportunity.
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
Although I agree with the "but then why is Southee ...." part.
Nicholls, Wagner, Southee, Stead. Have been the deadwood. We're half way there. But because of the weakness - by the time we get 'there' - Blundell will also have joined the walking dead.
To be honest, if Kuggeliiejn is the next cab off the rank, I can see why Timmy is getting picked.
He shouldn't be getting the new ball though if Henry and O'Rourke are playing. That's very indulgent.
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If I was being cynical. Can probably infer why no Timmy like-for-likes are getting anywhere near the taxi rank.
If I was being less cynical, I would (kinda) agree with the bowling styles selections based on team balance and the captain is a lock-in.
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Its a shame Lockie Ferguson is so brittle. (understandable with fast bowlers)
Lockie has a decent FC record albeit not a big one, 160 odd wickets @ 24Still unsure why he was rested from the 3rd T20I when there isnt any more of those till June.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
Although I agree with the "but then why is Southee ...." part.
Nicholls, Wagner, Southee, Stead. Have been the deadwood. We're half way there. But because of the weakness - by the time we get 'there' - Blundell will also have joined the walking dead.
To be honest, if Kuggeliiejn is the next cab off the rank, I can see why Timmy is getting picked.
He shouldn't be getting the new ball though if Henry and O'Rourke are playing. That's very indulgent.
Having a play on stats guru.
Since 2020 heres the fast bowling statsTimmy 108 wickets @28
Jamieson 80 wickets @ 19
Boult 61 Wickets @25
Wagner 59 Wickets @31
Henry 58 Wickets @27those are the only ones to have played double figure tests. Timmy way out in front with 28 tests, the rest in the teens.
The last year or so has been bleak for our pace attack (or lack of)
We are basically held together by Henry (averages 24) where as Timmy's @35, Wagner @40, Tickner @36, Kuggeleijn @42Jamieson has only played 3 tests in that time, and we can only hope O'Rourke isnt just a fluke.
Might as well give Sears a go. He cant be much worse then who we have already tried. -
I don't think that Southee has any intention of retiring so a decision will need to be made for him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350195065/tim-southees-journey-rugby-head-test-cricket-centurion
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@Virgil said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
Although I agree with the "but then why is Southee ...." part.
Nicholls, Wagner, Southee, Stead. Have been the deadwood. We're half way there. But because of the weakness - by the time we get 'there' - Blundell will also have joined the walking dead.
To be honest, if Kuggeliiejn is the next cab off the rank, I can see why Timmy is getting picked.
He shouldn't be getting the new ball though if Henry and O'Rourke are playing. That's very indulgent.
Having a play on stats guru.
Since 2020 heres the fast bowling statsTimmy 108 wickets @28
Jamieson 80 wickets @ 19
Boult 61 Wickets @25
Wagner 59 Wickets @31
Henry 58 Wickets @27those are the only ones to have played double figure tests. Timmy way out in front with 28 tests, the rest in the teens.
The last year or so has been bleak for our pace attack (or lack of)
We are basically held together by Henry (averages 24) where as Timmy's @35, Wagner @40, Tickner @36, Kuggeleijn @42Jamieson has only played 3 tests in that time, and we can only hope O'Rourke isnt just a fluke.
Might as well give Sears a go. He cant be much worse then who we have already tried.This is such a ‘early 2000s black caps’ way of thinking but to be honest it’s accurate, that’s where NZ cricket is at the moment.
…..that’s not even mentioning the batsmen either, that’s a whole other issue !
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Australia:
I don't think that Southee has any intention of retiring so a decision will need to be made for him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350195065/tim-southees-journey-rugby-head-test-cricket-centurion
He might have his eyes on Hadlees record and do a Kapil Dev and take a fucken age to get there!
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
Although I agree with the "but then why is Southee ...." part.
Nicholls, Wagner, Southee, Stead. Have been the deadwood. We're half way there. But because of the weakness - by the time we get 'there' - Blundell will also have joined the walking dead.
Yeah what has happened to him ?
He seems a lock as a keeper but his batting form has absolutely fallen off a cliff. Aside from the odd smallish contribution here and there he’s a walking wicket nowadays….
He’s made double figures with a high score of 33 three times in his last 12 innings.
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Interesting article here on cricinfo breaking down his stats
Fair to say hes struggled vs and in OZ.
Southee's endurance and adaptability to the fore in unique landmark
The New Zealand captain brings up a century of appearances in each format in Christchurch. Will another pace bowler ever do it?
Also pointing out this lovely gem of a stat "He's taken eight Test wickets in his last 10 bowling innings at a cost of 52.75 apiece, while striking at 101.7."
Shame hes not a batsman averaging 52 at a strike rate of 101...
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Australia:
I don't think that Southee has any intention of retiring so a decision will need to be made for him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350195065/tim-southees-journey-rugby-head-test-cricket-centurion
Last week Egan did. a puff piece on Stead, as he was finally getting some media pressure. This week a puff piece on Southee.
Hmmm.
Not suspicious.
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Australia:
I don't think that Southee has any intention of retiring so a decision will need to be made for him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350195065/tim-southees-journey-rugby-head-test-cricket-centurion
Last week Egan did. a puff piece on Stead, as he was finally getting some media pressure. This week a puff piece on Southee.
Hmmm.
Not suspicious.
As you’ve pointed out I’m a bit of a stats geek…..
Southee has taken his 378 wickets at 29.49. Stats don’t always tell the full story but I’d hate for him to edge over 30. For me that’s the cut off between “very good” and “good” for a pace bowler ( not an exact measure, see S Warne for clarification )
Is he damaging the legacy by continuing to play ?
Sir Paddles took a wicket with his last ball in test cricket. Again, maybe not a fair comparison but thats the ultimate “mic drop” send off.
But when the alternatives are Kuggs ( I’ll abbreviate so as not to continually spell his name wrong ) and Sears maybe he needs to carry on ?
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Australia:
I don't think that Southee has any intention of retiring so a decision will need to be made for him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350195065/tim-southees-journey-rugby-head-test-cricket-centurion
Last week Egan did. a puff piece on Stead, as he was finally getting some media pressure. This week a puff piece on Southee.
Hmmm.
Not suspicious.
As you’ve pointed out I’m a bit of a stats geek…..
Southee has taken his 378 wickets at 29.49. Stats don’t always tell the full story but I’d hate for him to edge over 30. For me that’s the cut off between “very good” and “good” for a pace bowler ( not an exact measure, see S Warne for clarification )
Is he damaging the legacy by continuing to play ?
Sir Paddles took a wicket with his last ball in test cricket. Again, maybe not a fair comparison but thats the ultimate “mic drop” send off.
But when the alternatives are Kuggs ( I’ll abbreviate so as not to continually spell his name wrong ) and Sears maybe he needs to carry on ?
Thats a pretty good record for sure, but if you check out the break down of his stats though
He averages 43 vs OZ, nearly 35 vs England, 47 vs South Africa
On the other side of that he does average 24 vs India, 18 vs Sri Lanka and 20 vs West Indies
But to have such a average to poor record against 3 of the best test nations isnt great material. -
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Australia:
I don't think that Southee has any intention of retiring so a decision will need to be made for him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350195065/tim-southees-journey-rugby-head-test-cricket-centurion
Last week Egan did. a puff piece on Stead, as he was finally getting some media pressure. This week a puff piece on Southee.
Hmmm.
Not suspicious.
As you’ve pointed out I’m a bit of a stats geek…..
Southee has taken his 378 wickets at 29.49. Stats don’t always tell the full story but I’d hate for him to edge over 30. For me that’s the cut off between “very good” and “good” for a pace bowler ( not an exact measure, see S Warne for clarification )
Is he damaging the legacy by continuing to play ?
Sir Paddles took a wicket with his last ball in test cricket. Again, maybe not a fair comparison but thats the ultimate “mic drop” send off.
But when the alternatives are Kuggs ( I’ll abbreviate so as not to continually spell his name wrong ) and Sears maybe he needs to carry on ?
The alternative is not necessarily Kuggs though. Nathan Smith is definitely worth a shot but if you were to pick him it would be either for Southee or Henry not with them. Henry is now our number one bowler and Southee is captain so he won't get picked.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
Sir Paddles took a wicket with his last ball in test cricket. Again, maybe not a fair comparison but thats the ultimate “mic drop” send off.
To expand on your comparison. At the beginning of that final tour of England commentators were concerned that it was a tour too far for Hadlee and that he should have given it away rather than tarnishing his reputation.
He went on to be named player of the series.
Everyone remembers he took the wicket of Devon Malcolm with his last ball having been knighted during the match but how many realise it was in a losing cause? England smashed us in the first innings starting with a 200? run opening partnership.
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To be fair to Dev, he had to bowl on the dust bowls of India for a lot of his tests 😂
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@LABCAT said in Black Caps v Australia:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps v Australia:
I don't think that Southee has any intention of retiring so a decision will need to be made for him.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350195065/tim-southees-journey-rugby-head-test-cricket-centurion
Last week Egan did. a puff piece on Stead, as he was finally getting some media pressure. This week a puff piece on Southee.
Hmmm.
Not suspicious.
As you’ve pointed out I’m a bit of a stats geek…..
Southee has taken his 378 wickets at 29.49. Stats don’t always tell the full story but I’d hate for him to edge over 30. For me that’s the cut off between “very good” and “good” for a pace bowler ( not an exact measure, see S Warne for clarification )
Is he damaging the legacy by continuing to play ?
Sir Paddles took a wicket with his last ball in test cricket. Again, maybe not a fair comparison but thats the ultimate “mic drop” send off.
But when the alternatives are Kuggs ( I’ll abbreviate so as not to continually spell his name wrong ) and Sears maybe he needs to carry on ?
The alternative is not necessarily Kuggs though. Nathan Smith is definitely worth a shot but if you were to pick him it would be either for Southee or Henry not with them. Henry is now our number one bowler and Southee is captain so he won't get picked.
Duffy and Smith are both better new ball bowlers than Southee now. (as are O'Rourke and Jamieson if they were fit and don't necessarily need to be 3rd seamers but they are awesome at that role). Henry is the number 1.
So, at best, Southee is the 6th best new ball bowler in NZ.
He's now a specialist captain.
The decline can be pretty rapid and unexpected. Last year at 34 he was good enough, this year at 35 he isn't.
'Forced retirement': Taylor on Wagner's exit from Black Caps
