Auckland stadiums - Eden Park, Western Springs etc
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@Rapido i know in of themselves stadiums dont make money, but cant help wonder if NZR/super franchises would be better to have some sort of share in their grounds rather than just complaining local councils dont support them, an actual asset on their books.
Lots/most? of teams around the world own their grounds or the grounds are owned separately but the same owners
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@Kiwiwomble said in Quay Park stadium for Auckland?:
@Rapido i know in of themselves stadiums dont make money, but cant help wonder if NZR/super franchises would be better to have some sort of share in their grounds rather than just complaining local councils dont support them, an actual asset on their books.
Lots/most? of teams around the world own their grounds or the grounds are owned separately but the same owners
Sh!t no. That would be a financial disaster for the codes.
or
Sh!t yes, That would be a financial blessing for the ratepayer and taxpayer.
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@Rapido maybe not the size of stadium they all demand other people build for them....but ones the size they actually use
AFC wimbledon have just build a new 10k stadium (with foundaitons for expansion to 20k) in london for 30M pounds, surely the highlanders could do the same in dunedin for a fraction of that and have an actual asset
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@Kiwiwomble said in Quay Park stadium for Auckland?:
@Rapido maybe not the size of stadium they all demand other people build for them....but ones the size they actually use
AFC wimbledon have just build a new 10k stadium (with foundaitons for expansion to 20k) in london for 30M pounds, surely the highlanders could do the same in dunedin for a fraction of that and have an actual asset
It works in English football (or most European football) with 25 to 35 homes games a season, and people actually turn up to watch.
For historical context.
The Eden Park Trust board is still 100% owned by the ARFU and Auckland Cricket (50% each), but they needed public money to fund the upgrades for RWC 2011. They still own it.The ORFU used to 100% own Carisbrook. They sold it to the council in 2010ish in exchange for a bailout ($1m in debt, which seems laughably small now), and a new public stadium. They couldn't afford to upgrade/maintain it. Although they had actually built new replacement stands in 1992 (main stand), 1993 (terrace extension and corporate boxes, and late 90s (northern end stand replacement and extend roof around corner of terrace)
Lancaster Park was owned by the Victory Park Trust Board. Which was similar to Auckland structure, a 50% each shared by the rugby union and cricket board. I'm not sure if the council had taken it over before the earthquakes, probably had.
Rugby Park in Hamilton. I'm not sure of the land ownership, but the facility was owned by Waikato Rugby Union. But the council took it over to develop it into Waikato Stadium (1 new stand, 2 new uncovered terrace ends, and lowering the playing surface by a few metres).
Wellington Rugby Union had Athletic Park land on a 99 year lease, and stopped spending any money on stand/s facilities about 40 years before expiry of lease.
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An interesting thing in NZ is the changes (reduction to 50%) to the tax deductability of entertainment expenses.
Has had a huge effect on coporate boxes and lounges at NZ venues.
Go to Caketin and look up at the lights off ghost town of the Coporate box level.
However, this is also hard to totally unpick from:
- the general unattractiveness of going to events by employees. They just aren't interested, my friends with the 'keys' to corporate boxes just can't get anyone interested often enough.
- the boring wowser attitude to binge drinking the corporate-paid-for booze by Gen Y and Gen Z
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surely this only stacks up if it becomes the national stadium and all national football games are played here.
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@mariner4life ....youre probably right...would have been good if that was decided before chch started their new big stadium aiming to attract AB games etc
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@Machpants said in Quay Park stadium for Auckland?:
One of them was in the tank farm, I take it that is derelict now?
she's pretty built up there now - not sure there's space left! Then no doubt the new apartment dwellers would complain
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If stadiums made money, private investors would build them. The only stadium that makes money from operations is Eden Park, and even then, that's only before depreciation.
The economics of regional development don't really hold up either as usually they are just moving money around the country. Something like a Lions Tour or world cup is an exception to that as they bring in overseas visitors, but not on a scale that really justifies the expense. If a region doesn't have one, it will find it loses some spending to other regions that do, but again, not enough to justify the expense.
All that said, I don't personally have a problem with councils building stadiums, even big ones - it's an amenity that adds to the vibe of a city. I just wish everyone would stop pretending there's an economic argument in New Zealand and admit that they are being built because we want the ability to watch live shows and sport at big stadiums.
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NZ Rugby's (silver) lake of fire
Another internecine rugby war looms; stadium stuff Pt LXVII; netball has issues; and why watching Will bat is so delightfully frustrating.
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Looks fucking good on paper
The detailed plans - unveiled for the first time by the Weekend Herald - include up to four hotels - among them a signature All Blacks hotel integrated into the stadium, along with bars, restaurants and retail outlets, commercial office space and scope for about 2000 residential apartments, framed by public plazas and park areas.
Anchoring the precinct is the spectacular 50,000-seat stadium (which can be scaled down to 20,000 capacity for smaller events) with a unique sculptured design inspired by Auckland’s isthmus and cultural heritage.
And rather than inward facing like many stadia, it looks out towards the Waitematā Harbour, with a panorama of Rangitoto. The stadium, which also features an “accordion” style retractable roof, has an iconic look that designers hope in time could become Auckland’s equivalent of the Sydney Opera House.
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Yet again, who's funding it, and where is the land coming from? so many 'concepts' thrown around - I don't even bother reading these any more. Which is going ahead - the Eden Park full roof + extra shit, or this one, or the Wynyard stadium, or the Ports located stadium?
Stadia are cool, but the business cases almost never stack up.
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@Machpants said in Quay Park stadium for Auckland?:
Looks fucking good on paper
I doubt if it will ever get the go-ahead. But it looks wonderful
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@nzzp said in Quay Park stadium for Auckland?:
I don't even bother reading these any more.
I do. I followed the cake tin development with interest back in the Athletic Park days. They eventually got the site right but f++ked up big time on this boring cake tin design.
I just hope Auckland can get it right this time (after the only ok Eden Park upgrade). And aim for something great. We've got in NZ (Wellington) a lot of recent ugly almost soul-destroying buildings. The not-so-new now Wellington stadium is disappointing.
Unless cool designs are out there it will never happen. Granted it likely won't but the process is interesting. To see where NZ is at as a country. And who knows NZ and Auckland might fluke it and get it very right this time.
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@Kirwan said in Quay Park stadium for Auckland?:
Just finish off Eden Park and stop wasting money. This will never happen.
I’m not a fan of Eden park location wise…I really thought this was put to bed with the 2011 RWC development, thought that was the time to make the big decisions
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@Machpants said in Quay Park stadium for Auckland?:
Looks fucking good on paper
I had another look at this.
It really is super impressive. If NZ and Auckland could actually produce something as good as this then go for it.
And not a cut down cheap version either.
'Unique opportunity': Radical design of proposed downtown stadium
The global design team behind the proposed new downtown stadium at Quay Park believe that the arena could one day become Auckland’s version of the Sydney O
It’s a concept that hasn’t been seen in New Zealand – or Australasia before – and could be polarising but the design team wanted to push the boundaries.
“We view every stadium as a unique opportunity,” HKS Australasia director Andrew Colling told the Herald. “Every city deserves a unique response and especially New Zealand. The last thing Auckland needs is another cookie cutter, cake tin solution that is imported from Australia or imported from Europe. We felt very strongly that this was an opportunity to take a fresh start.
“It reflects the unique context and backdrop and hopefully when people see the images they feel a strong sense of connection that yes, this is New Zealand, this is Auckland. That was the key driver; when you are in the stadium you can’t be anywhere else in the world.”
The design is distinctive, from whichever angle, in a massive departure from the standard coliseum bowl. The roof takes inspiration from traditional Maori culture – with its pattern and linework – while the overall structure almost defies description.
“It’s a significant piece of urban sculpture, a big piece of artwork,” said Colling. “We hope it could one day be Auckland’s version of the Sydney Opera House, but in a sports stadium. It has been sculpted to fit a particular part of the city and tie together the various links that used to exist on that site, trying to embrace two different cultural heritages. Hopefully, it becomes an anchor on the eastern side of the city and plays a role in identifying the city as a whole.”
Masterplan
Exclusive: ‘Transformation on a global scale’ - plans revealed for new downtown stadium
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