Black Caps - Bangladesh tour
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Yeah. F all difference between their averages for similar number of tests, but Santner's econ almost a run an over better. Not sure whether those states are comparable wrt to where they played their tests? NZ v subcontinent proportions?
I was going to continue with the court analogy that Santner had run out of appeals. Found guilty of being ineffectual as a wicket taker with a red ball but realised that Sodhi has also appeared before the head wigs and had the same verdict.
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@Snowy said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Yeah. F all difference between their averages for similar number of tests, but Santner's econ almost a run an over better. Not sure whether those states are comparable wrt to where they played their tests? NZ v subcontinent proportions?
I was going to continue with the court analogy that Santner had run out of appeals. Found guilty of being ineffectual as a wicket taker with a red ball but realised that Sodhi has also appeared before the head wigs and had the same verdict.
Santner is a better batsman too but the fact he’s even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
I know spinners averages aren’t really comparable to faster bowlers ( ie on paper you’d call Courtney Walsh more of a legend than Shane Warne ) but Santner and Sodhi both average well into the 40s after loads of chances. Pretty fucken substandard at test level.
At the risk of repeating myself for the last ten years any chance KW can turn the arm over? He went ok and doesn’t have the captaincy burden anymore.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
the fact he’s even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
Yeah it does. The argument for Sodhi over Santner was, I think, the perception that Sodhi was more likely to take wickets but given that stats (yeah) show that isn't true he is a better option given that he leaks a lot fewer runs. Averages of around 45 are indeed shit.
Off course if Ravindra plays we have another left arm spinner of sorts in the team anyway so would he do worse that Santner wickets wise? Unlikely, and taking 20 wickets is more important than econ (generally). So I reckon keep Sodhi for variety (leggie instead of two left armers, actually three with Patel) and play Ravindra for Nicholls.
Nice thought re Kane but think that we are dreaming. Probably even less likely now with the knee.
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I lot of the batsmen problems in Bangladesh comes down to the support staff
Daniel Flynn as batting coach and Jacob Oram bowling coach are not really great coaches to go to when you are struggling.
They lack experience in these sort of conditions,
If I was struggling I would be heading straight for Kane to ask questions but that piles a lot more Burden on him. -
@Snowy said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
the fact he’s even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
Yeah it does. The argument for Sodhi over Santner was, I think, the perception that Sodhi was more likely to take wickets but given that stats (yeah) show that isn't true he is a better option given that he leaks a lot fewer runs. Averages of around 45 are indeed shit.
Off course if Ravindra plays we have another left arm spinner of sorts in the team anyway so would he do worse that Santner wickets wise? Unlikely, and taking 20 wickets is more important than econ (generally). So I reckon keep Sodhi for variety (leggie instead of two left armers, actually three with Patel) and play Ravindra for Nicholls.
Nice thought re Kane but think that we are dreaming. Probably even less likely now with the knee.
The 1980s was a pretty damn shite era for spinners and looking back we were lucky to have guys as useful as John Bracewell and Stephen Boock who would walk into the team these days. In fact they would have been amongst the best spinners in the world when they played truth be told.
The idea of Santner tying up an end while the other spinner blasts them out is fantasy stuff.
Ravindras bowling numbers are pretty horrific but he could be at his very best useful enough for a bit of variety at test level given he’s obviously there far more as a batsman.
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Santner at the least might dry up the runs in an ODI mode. Ish is one of those players who I'd love to see kick on, but I fear consistency will continue to be his downfall.
Ajaz, Ish and Phillips offer good variety - where Santner for Ish leaves us with two left armers. I'm not sure Santner is good enough to warrant that.
Mind you, Ish doesn't really warrant his place either.
I'd bring in Rachin for Nicholls.
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Santner at the least might dry up the runs in an ODI mode. Ish is one of those players who I'd love to see kick on, but I fear consistency will continue to be his downfall.
Ajaz, Ish and Phillips offer good variety - where Santner for Ish leaves us with two left armers. I'm not sure Santner is good enough to warrant that.
Mind you, Ish doesn't really warrant his place either.
I'd bring in Rachin for Nicholls.
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
Nicholls was actually ranked in the top ten internationally at one stage. Then again Jonny Bairstow was too.
I still reckon the selectors will think back to his double ton if there’s any talk of dropping him. Hopefully I’m wrong.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
This sums it up. He's heading in the wrong direction - and has been for a fair while.
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@canefan said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
One massive score should not define him right now. The selectors are foolish if that's what is keeping Nicholls in the side right now. I see a lot of dross
….but we have tests at home coming up……which leads me to think how many of our batsmen are ( as rabid Indian fans point out online ) home track bullies ?
I mentioned Nicholls in a previous post….48 home, 25 away 38 overall. ( that’s a huge discrepancy there )
KW 66, 46, 55 overall. ( 46 overseas is still excellent but he absolutely loves dominating at home in a ridiculous fashion )
Tom Latham 45, 37, 41 overall. ( hmm, they may have a bit of a point there )
Devon Conway 49, 46, 47 overall. ( nice spread but still earlyish days )
Daryl Mitchell 50, 63, 56 overall. ( he did perform bloody well in England but like Conway still early days )
Tom Blundell 41, 41, 41 overall. ( Holy shit, no criticism there, especially considering he’s a keeper first these days ! )
….and for shits and gigs I chucked Ross Taylor in and got 53, 38, 44 overall ( this surprised me, I thought the gap would be considerably closer )
So I guess the point in all of this is the selectors will most probably consider that Nicholls is coming home soon…..and they’ll keep him in the team for one more test in Bangladesh before getting ready for SA in NZ in Feb.
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@canefan said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Speaks sense about Nicholls but nonsense about Santner.
So a 50% article which is miles better than we usually get from him.
I can’t find anything on the team, has it been named yet ?
Very damning that Nicholls has never got a hundred at a true “away” venue but I’ll look forward to him cracking a double century while sitting on the banks at the basin next year.
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Interesting that Nicholls is NZ's perhaps 4th best ever batsman at home (i did minimum of 30 innings). And 32nd best batsman away/neutral.
and
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I think the Andrew Voerman article better captured my beef, rather than the Mark reason one. Although they both have plenty of 'right' in them.
It is that it is the 3rd time in 3 years that Nicholls has been in this situation, as Voerman points out. The continuity of selection is an admirable policy. But, when all the team is ageing at the same time, that long rope needs to be changed to be looked at as an opportunity to re-new.
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Funny (CricInfo):
Ben's retort to those wanting Nicholls to be dropped: "Picking Nicholls over Ravindra is clearly the right call - getting frustrated at people who want to drop the guy with a career average of 38 two games off 200*, just because Ravindra is the latest hottest thing (with 6 innings under his belt and a best of 18*). Ravindra will have his time."
Geoff counters: "In the last 2 years away from New Zealand, Nicholls has averaged 14.77 with the bat with a high score of 30. Batting at number 11 Ajaz Patel has averaged 15.66 with a high score of 35."
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Santner in for Sodhi. No Ravindra.
Bangaldesh won the toss and will bat. Fourth innings meltdown looms without us getting a big first innings lead.
One ineffectual spinner replaces another.
But the silver lining is the batting will supposedly be stronger.
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