Black Caps - Bangladesh tour
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@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Voges had a funny old career. If I remember rightly he plundered a really bad Windies team at home which helped skyrocket the average to Bradman levels and then as it petered off to “only” around 60 odd they realised younger players were there waiting for a chance and he was dropped.
Yeah- he plundered the Windies (average vs them 542) and, unfortunately us as well (average 99).
Less successful against England Sri Lanka and SA (average 7.5 against the Jaaps).
A few like Conway and Marnus who have had fabulous short run averages in recent times, but are slowly subsiding to their natural level.
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@canefan said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
What is Nicholls' average abroad vs home?
I can’t cut and paste for some reason but at home he averages a world class 48 from 33 tests. Eight of his nine test tons scored here.
Abroad he is pretty ordinary 25 from 22 tests. ( this will go down even more after this test )
That’s a pretty ugly discrepancy.
As the fuck you bloody crowd like to point out KW is also something of a home track bully. 66 at home in 45 tests vs 46 in 50 away. 16 tons at home vs 13 away.
So in KWs case he is excellent abroad but otherworldly at home.
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@Damo said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Sodhi sawn off with a dreadful decision but successfully reviewed.
Could that be the decisive moment in the test?
I really do enjoy your ridiculous optimism fella
Right that nonsense is over, let’s flush the dunny and move on.
Losing to Bangladesh isn’t as embarrassing as it once was, they’re a decent team now especially at home.
So what happens now ? Does Ravindra get a go at the expense of Nicholls ? Glenn Phillips did well enough with the bat but with the ball he was a revelation…..or was this a fluke as sometimes happens in cricket ? ( Allan Border once took 11 wickets in a test vs the Windies after all ) Mitchell continues to stand with the GOATs in terms of stats for the time being.
How was Blundells keeping ? Cos his batting was shite……
KW is KW.
Latham and Conway did fuck all but they’re both well and truly safe.
Sodhi was a bit ordinary but he’ll be fine due to the “having a spinner in the subcontinent” clause that is there by default.
All told I can see just one possible change, Ravindra in for either Nicholls or Phillips.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Damo said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Sodhi sawn off with a dreadful decision but successfully reviewed.
Could that be the decisive moment in the test?
I really do enjoy your ridiculous optimism fella
Right that nonsense is over, let’s flush the dunny and move on.
Losing to Bangladesh isn’t as embarrassing as it once was, they’re a decent team now especially at home.
So what happens now ? Does Ravindra get a go at the expense of Nicholls ? Glenn Phillips did well enough with the bat but with the ball he was a revelation…..or was this a fluke as sometimes happens in cricket ? ( Allan Border once took 11 wickets in a test vs the Windies after all ) Mitchell continues to stand with the GOATs in terms of stats for the time being.
How was Blundells keeping ?
KW is KW.
Latham and Conway did fuck all but they’re both well and truly safe.
Sodhi was a bit ordinary but he’ll be fine due to the “having a spinner in the subcontinent” clause that is there by default.
All told I can see just one possible change, Ravindra in for either Nicholls or Phillips.
I think Ravindra has earnt a chance at test cricket. I would drop Nicholls for him. I have had enough of Nicholls. I don't think he's up to it, especially overseas and/or against quality opposition.
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@Damo said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Damo said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Sodhi sawn off with a dreadful decision but successfully reviewed.
Could that be the decisive moment in the test?
I really do enjoy your ridiculous optimism fella
Right that nonsense is over, let’s flush the dunny and move on.
Losing to Bangladesh isn’t as embarrassing as it once was, they’re a decent team now especially at home.
So what happens now ? Does Ravindra get a go at the expense of Nicholls ? Glenn Phillips did well enough with the bat but with the ball he was a revelation…..or was this a fluke as sometimes happens in cricket ? ( Allan Border once took 11 wickets in a test vs the Windies after all ) Mitchell continues to stand with the GOATs in terms of stats for the time being.
How was Blundells keeping ?
KW is KW.
Latham and Conway did fuck all but they’re both well and truly safe.
Sodhi was a bit ordinary but he’ll be fine due to the “having a spinner in the subcontinent” clause that is there by default.
All told I can see just one possible change, Ravindra in for either Nicholls or Phillips.
I think Ravindra has earnt a chance at test cricket. I would drop Nicholls for him. I have had enough of Nicholls. I don't think he's up to it, especially overseas and/or against quality opposition.
Yeah that is kinda my feeling too but the unbeaten double ton gets him a shitload of credit in the bank as it often does with him. ( he must have been sailing close to the edge before then )
Despite my misgivings a few posts ago I’d have to say Ravindra is worth a shot.
In saying that Phillips is new to the team and despite the bowling and a solid 42 he could be in danger of the chop
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@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Glenn Phillips did well enough with the bat but with the ball he was a revelation…..or was this a fluke as sometimes happens in cricket ?
Not really a revelation, I mentioned him as the best spin option earlier in the thread, and people kept saying that we needed a specialist spinner. The fact that he can bat a bit (more white ball so far) doesn't change anything with regards to his bowling. I repeatedly asked who this specialist spinner was, and, unsurprisingly, no one was forthcoming with an option. He's our best bet at the moment regardless of whether it was a fluke. M Bracewell is in the same boat, he can knock a white ball around, which is an added bonus to him being another option in our limited spin bowling stocks.
It actually feels like a spinner needs to be shit at batting in order to be any good at bowling around here!
Yes, I know that Phillips and Bracewell weren't originally spinners but hey, just because I have always operated aeroplanes didn't stop me from learning (quite successfully) diggers a few years back.
@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
All I was saying is that guys can look a million bucks in ODI and not translate that to Test cricket. The jury is still very much out on Ravindra.
Yep re first sentence. Second one, for a jury to be out you need to have a trial (test, in this case - yes I know he has had 3). Now would seem like a good time to give him his appeal in court and face the jury again. For me, Nicholls goes (yes tough) because we probably won't lose anything batting wise (may gain a lot esp long term) and a little bonus if Ravindra rolls his arm over as well.
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Yeah. F all difference between their averages for similar number of tests, but Santner's econ almost a run an over better. Not sure whether those states are comparable wrt to where they played their tests? NZ v subcontinent proportions?
I was going to continue with the court analogy that Santner had run out of appeals. Found guilty of being ineffectual as a wicket taker with a red ball but realised that Sodhi has also appeared before the head wigs and had the same verdict.
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@Snowy said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Yeah. F all difference between their averages for similar number of tests, but Santner's econ almost a run an over better. Not sure whether those states are comparable wrt to where they played their tests? NZ v subcontinent proportions?
I was going to continue with the court analogy that Santner had run out of appeals. Found guilty of being ineffectual as a wicket taker with a red ball but realised that Sodhi has also appeared before the head wigs and had the same verdict.
Santner is a better batsman too but the fact he’s even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
I know spinners averages aren’t really comparable to faster bowlers ( ie on paper you’d call Courtney Walsh more of a legend than Shane Warne ) but Santner and Sodhi both average well into the 40s after loads of chances. Pretty fucken substandard at test level.
At the risk of repeating myself for the last ten years any chance KW can turn the arm over? He went ok and doesn’t have the captaincy burden anymore.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
the fact he’s even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
Yeah it does. The argument for Sodhi over Santner was, I think, the perception that Sodhi was more likely to take wickets but given that stats (yeah) show that isn't true he is a better option given that he leaks a lot fewer runs. Averages of around 45 are indeed shit.
Off course if Ravindra plays we have another left arm spinner of sorts in the team anyway so would he do worse that Santner wickets wise? Unlikely, and taking 20 wickets is more important than econ (generally). So I reckon keep Sodhi for variety (leggie instead of two left armers, actually three with Patel) and play Ravindra for Nicholls.
Nice thought re Kane but think that we are dreaming. Probably even less likely now with the knee.
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I lot of the batsmen problems in Bangladesh comes down to the support staff
Daniel Flynn as batting coach and Jacob Oram bowling coach are not really great coaches to go to when you are struggling.
They lack experience in these sort of conditions,
If I was struggling I would be heading straight for Kane to ask questions but that piles a lot more Burden on him. -
@Snowy said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
the fact he’s even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
Yeah it does. The argument for Sodhi over Santner was, I think, the perception that Sodhi was more likely to take wickets but given that stats (yeah) show that isn't true he is a better option given that he leaks a lot fewer runs. Averages of around 45 are indeed shit.
Off course if Ravindra plays we have another left arm spinner of sorts in the team anyway so would he do worse that Santner wickets wise? Unlikely, and taking 20 wickets is more important than econ (generally). So I reckon keep Sodhi for variety (leggie instead of two left armers, actually three with Patel) and play Ravindra for Nicholls.
Nice thought re Kane but think that we are dreaming. Probably even less likely now with the knee.
The 1980s was a pretty damn shite era for spinners and looking back we were lucky to have guys as useful as John Bracewell and Stephen Boock who would walk into the team these days. In fact they would have been amongst the best spinners in the world when they played truth be told.
The idea of Santner tying up an end while the other spinner blasts them out is fantasy stuff.
Ravindras bowling numbers are pretty horrific but he could be at his very best useful enough for a bit of variety at test level given he’s obviously there far more as a batsman.
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Santner at the least might dry up the runs in an ODI mode. Ish is one of those players who I'd love to see kick on, but I fear consistency will continue to be his downfall.
Ajaz, Ish and Phillips offer good variety - where Santner for Ish leaves us with two left armers. I'm not sure Santner is good enough to warrant that.
Mind you, Ish doesn't really warrant his place either.
I'd bring in Rachin for Nicholls.
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Santner at the least might dry up the runs in an ODI mode. Ish is one of those players who I'd love to see kick on, but I fear consistency will continue to be his downfall.
Ajaz, Ish and Phillips offer good variety - where Santner for Ish leaves us with two left armers. I'm not sure Santner is good enough to warrant that.
Mind you, Ish doesn't really warrant his place either.
I'd bring in Rachin for Nicholls.
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
Nicholls was actually ranked in the top ten internationally at one stage. Then again Jonny Bairstow was too.
I still reckon the selectors will think back to his double ton if there’s any talk of dropping him. Hopefully I’m wrong.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
This sums it up. He's heading in the wrong direction - and has been for a fair while.
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