Black Caps - Bangladesh tour
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@Damo said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Damo said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Sodhi sawn off with a dreadful decision but successfully reviewed.
Could that be the decisive moment in the test?
I really do enjoy your ridiculous optimism fella
Right that nonsense is over, letās flush the dunny and move on.
Losing to Bangladesh isnāt as embarrassing as it once was, theyāre a decent team now especially at home.
So what happens now ? Does Ravindra get a go at the expense of Nicholls ? Glenn Phillips did well enough with the bat but with the ball he was a revelationā¦..or was this a fluke as sometimes happens in cricket ? ( Allan Border once took 11 wickets in a test vs the Windies after all ) Mitchell continues to stand with the GOATs in terms of stats for the time being.
How was Blundells keeping ?
KW is KW.
Latham and Conway did fuck all but theyāre both well and truly safe.
Sodhi was a bit ordinary but heāll be fine due to the āhaving a spinner in the subcontinentā clause that is there by default.
All told I can see just one possible change, Ravindra in for either Nicholls or Phillips.
I think Ravindra has earnt a chance at test cricket. I would drop Nicholls for him. I have had enough of Nicholls. I don't think he's up to it, especially overseas and/or against quality opposition.
Yeah that is kinda my feeling too but the unbeaten double ton gets him a shitload of credit in the bank as it often does with him. ( he must have been sailing close to the edge before then )
Despite my misgivings a few posts ago Iād have to say Ravindra is worth a shot.
In saying that Phillips is new to the team and despite the bowling and a solid 42 he could be in danger of the chop
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@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Glenn Phillips did well enough with the bat but with the ball he was a revelationā¦..or was this a fluke as sometimes happens in cricket ?
Not really a revelation, I mentioned him as the best spin option earlier in the thread, and people kept saying that we needed a specialist spinner. The fact that he can bat a bit (more white ball so far) doesn't change anything with regards to his bowling. I repeatedly asked who this specialist spinner was, and, unsurprisingly, no one was forthcoming with an option. He's our best bet at the moment regardless of whether it was a fluke. M Bracewell is in the same boat, he can knock a white ball around, which is an added bonus to him being another option in our limited spin bowling stocks.
It actually feels like a spinner needs to be shit at batting in order to be any good at bowling around here!
Yes, I know that Phillips and Bracewell weren't originally spinners but hey, just because I have always operated aeroplanes didn't stop me from learning (quite successfully) diggers a few years back.
@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
All I was saying is that guys can look a million bucks in ODI and not translate that to Test cricket. The jury is still very much out on Ravindra.
Yep re first sentence. Second one, for a jury to be out you need to have a trial (test, in this case - yes I know he has had 3). Now would seem like a good time to give him his appeal in court and face the jury again. For me, Nicholls goes (yes tough) because we probably won't lose anything batting wise (may gain a lot esp long term) and a little bonus if Ravindra rolls his arm over as well.
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Yeah. F all difference between their averages for similar number of tests, but Santner's econ almost a run an over better. Not sure whether those states are comparable wrt to where they played their tests? NZ v subcontinent proportions?
I was going to continue with the court analogy that Santner had run out of appeals. Found guilty of being ineffectual as a wicket taker with a red ball but realised that Sodhi has also appeared before the head wigs and had the same verdict.
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@Snowy said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Yeah. F all difference between their averages for similar number of tests, but Santner's econ almost a run an over better. Not sure whether those states are comparable wrt to where they played their tests? NZ v subcontinent proportions?
I was going to continue with the court analogy that Santner had run out of appeals. Found guilty of being ineffectual as a wicket taker with a red ball but realised that Sodhi has also appeared before the head wigs and had the same verdict.
Santner is a better batsman too but the fact heās even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
I know spinners averages arenāt really comparable to faster bowlers ( ie on paper youād call Courtney Walsh more of a legend than Shane Warne ) but Santner and Sodhi both average well into the 40s after loads of chances. Pretty fucken substandard at test level.
At the risk of repeating myself for the last ten years any chance KW can turn the arm over? He went ok and doesnāt have the captaincy burden anymore.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
the fact heās even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
Yeah it does. The argument for Sodhi over Santner was, I think, the perception that Sodhi was more likely to take wickets but given that stats (yeah) show that isn't true he is a better option given that he leaks a lot fewer runs. Averages of around 45 are indeed shit.
Off course if Ravindra plays we have another left arm spinner of sorts in the team anyway so would he do worse that Santner wickets wise? Unlikely, and taking 20 wickets is more important than econ (generally). So I reckon keep Sodhi for variety (leggie instead of two left armers, actually three with Patel) and play Ravindra for Nicholls.
Nice thought re Kane but think that we are dreaming. Probably even less likely now with the knee.
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I lot of the batsmen problems in Bangladesh comes down to the support staff
Daniel Flynn as batting coach and Jacob Oram bowling coach are not really great coaches to go to when you are struggling.
They lack experience in these sort of conditions,
If I was struggling I would be heading straight for Kane to ask questions but that piles a lot more Burden on him. -
@Snowy said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@MN5 said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
the fact heās even being mentioned again says it all at the moment.
Yeah it does. The argument for Sodhi over Santner was, I think, the perception that Sodhi was more likely to take wickets but given that stats (yeah) show that isn't true he is a better option given that he leaks a lot fewer runs. Averages of around 45 are indeed shit.
Off course if Ravindra plays we have another left arm spinner of sorts in the team anyway so would he do worse that Santner wickets wise? Unlikely, and taking 20 wickets is more important than econ (generally). So I reckon keep Sodhi for variety (leggie instead of two left armers, actually three with Patel) and play Ravindra for Nicholls.
Nice thought re Kane but think that we are dreaming. Probably even less likely now with the knee.
The 1980s was a pretty damn shite era for spinners and looking back we were lucky to have guys as useful as John Bracewell and Stephen Boock who would walk into the team these days. In fact they would have been amongst the best spinners in the world when they played truth be told.
The idea of Santner tying up an end while the other spinner blasts them out is fantasy stuff.
Ravindras bowling numbers are pretty horrific but he could be at his very best useful enough for a bit of variety at test level given heās obviously there far more as a batsman.
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Santner at the least might dry up the runs in an ODI mode. Ish is one of those players who I'd love to see kick on, but I fear consistency will continue to be his downfall.
Ajaz, Ish and Phillips offer good variety - where Santner for Ish leaves us with two left armers. I'm not sure Santner is good enough to warrant that.
Mind you, Ish doesn't really warrant his place either.
I'd bring in Rachin for Nicholls.
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Might be worth looking at Santner in for Sodhi.
Santner at the least might dry up the runs in an ODI mode. Ish is one of those players who I'd love to see kick on, but I fear consistency will continue to be his downfall.
Ajaz, Ish and Phillips offer good variety - where Santner for Ish leaves us with two left armers. I'm not sure Santner is good enough to warrant that.
Mind you, Ish doesn't really warrant his place either.
I'd bring in Rachin for Nicholls.
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
Nicholls was actually ranked in the top ten internationally at one stage. Then again Jonny Bairstow was too.
I still reckon the selectors will think back to his double ton if thereās any talk of dropping him. Hopefully Iām wrong.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Even with his 200* Henry only averages 30 in the past two years. Without it he'd be averaging 23 from 23 innings. That's a lot of substandard, when you've got someone as promising as RR in the wings.
This sums it up. He's heading in the wrong direction - and has been for a fair while.
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@canefan said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
One massive score should not define him right now. The selectors are foolish if that's what is keeping Nicholls in the side right now. I see a lot of dross
ā¦.but we have tests at home coming upā¦ā¦which leads me to think how many of our batsmen are ( as rabid Indian fans point out online ) home track bullies ?
I mentioned Nicholls in a previous postā¦.48 home, 25 away 38 overall. ( thatās a huge discrepancy there )
KW 66, 46, 55 overall. ( 46 overseas is still excellent but he absolutely loves dominating at home in a ridiculous fashion )
Tom Latham 45, 37, 41 overall. ( hmm, they may have a bit of a point there )
Devon Conway 49, 46, 47 overall. ( nice spread but still earlyish days )
Daryl Mitchell 50, 63, 56 overall. ( he did perform bloody well in England but like Conway still early days )
Tom Blundell 41, 41, 41 overall. ( Holy shit, no criticism there, especially considering heās a keeper first these days ! )
ā¦.and for shits and gigs I chucked Ross Taylor in and got 53, 38, 44 overall ( this surprised me, I thought the gap would be considerably closer )
So I guess the point in all of this is the selectors will most probably consider that Nicholls is coming home soonā¦..and theyāll keep him in the team for one more test in Bangladesh before getting ready for SA in NZ in Feb.
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@canefan said in Black Caps - Bangladesh tour:
Speaks sense about Nicholls but nonsense about Santner.
So a 50% article which is miles better than we usually get from him.
I canāt find anything on the team, has it been named yet ?
Very damning that Nicholls has never got a hundred at a true āawayā venue but Iāll look forward to him cracking a double century while sitting on the banks at the basin next year.
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Interesting that Nicholls is NZ's perhaps 4th best ever batsman at home (i did minimum of 30 innings). And 32nd best batsman away/neutral.
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I think the Andrew Voerman article better captured my beef, rather than the Mark reason one. Although they both have plenty of 'right' in them.
It is that it is the 3rd time in 3 years that Nicholls has been in this situation, as Voerman points out. The continuity of selection is an admirable policy. But, when all the team is ageing at the same time, that long rope needs to be changed to be looked at as an opportunity to re-new.
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