All Blacks 2024
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As for tackle height, I'd venture that Chiefs coaches were more onto emphasising low hits than Blues.
Interestingly it was something highlighted by Hansen, so ABs also emphasize low tackle height. They look at how the international game is reffed, much harsher than SR, and low tackling is a key part of what they want. It may be that the Blues style of choke tackling to slow the opposition down hasn't helped their case with the ABs
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
I highly doubt they think they can't coach.
It's the logical conclusion from the premise they're selecting players who played a certain way that they can't get players to adjust.
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As for tackle height, I'd venture that Chiefs coaches were more onto emphasising low hits than Blues.
Interestingly it was something highlighted by Hansen, so ABs also emphasize low tackle height. They look at how the international game is reffed, much harsher than SR, and low tackling is a key part of what they want. It may be that the Blues style of choke tackling to slow the opposition down hasn't helped their case with the ABs
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
I highly doubt they think they can't coach.
It's the logical conclusion from the premise they're selecting players who played a certain way that they can't get players to adjust.
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
Someone spit in your coffee this morning or are you being deliberately obtuse?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As for tackle height, I'd venture that Chiefs coaches were more onto emphasising low hits than Blues.
Interestingly it was something highlighted by Hansen, so ABs also emphasize low tackle height. They look at how the international game is reffed, much harsher than SR, and low tackling is a key part of what they want. It may be that the Blues style of choke tackling to slow the opposition down hasn't helped their case with the ABs
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
I highly doubt they think they can't coach.
It's the logical conclusion from the premise they're selecting players who played a certain way that they can't get players to adjust.
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
Someone spit in your coffee this morning or are you being deliberately obtuse?
Hopefully nobody spat in my coffee. Do you really think they believe they can't coach?
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As for tackle height, I'd venture that Chiefs coaches were more onto emphasising low hits than Blues.
Interestingly it was something highlighted by Hansen, so ABs also emphasize low tackle height. They look at how the international game is reffed, much harsher than SR, and low tackling is a key part of what they want. It may be that the Blues style of choke tackling to slow the opposition down hasn't helped their case with the ABs
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
I highly doubt they think they can't coach.
It's the logical conclusion from the premise they're selecting players who played a certain way that they can't get players to adjust.
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
Someone spit in your coffee this morning or are you being deliberately obtuse?
Hopefully nobody spat in my coffee. Do you really think they believe they can't coach?
No, the hyperbole is that it would be a very odd reason to make certain selections: "They tackle low and that's how we want to play." Surely the best individuals in the best teams play a certain way because that's what they're instructed to do. I'm certain if Vern told the Blues that every tackle was to be a grass cutter, they'd have played that way.
The more I look at this Hoskins omission, the more unfathomable it becomes. Hansen's mealy mouth interview notwithstanding. I'd understand if they took another lock instead of Sititi. At least then you could say "we would've, but we needed a lock and hence he as a specialist 8 has to miss out. If Ardie gets injured he'll be called in."
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As for tackle height, I'd venture that Chiefs coaches were more onto emphasising low hits than Blues.
Interestingly it was something highlighted by Hansen, so ABs also emphasize low tackle height. They look at how the international game is reffed, much harsher than SR, and low tackling is a key part of what they want. It may be that the Blues style of choke tackling to slow the opposition down hasn't helped their case with the ABs
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
I highly doubt they think they can't coach.
It's the logical conclusion from the premise they're selecting players who played a certain way that they can't get players to adjust.
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
Someone spit in your coffee this morning or are you being deliberately obtuse?
Hopefully nobody spat in my coffee. Do you really think they believe they can't coach?
No, the hyperbole is that it would be a very odd reason to make certain selections: "They tackle low and that's how we want to play." Surely the best individuals in the best teams play a certain way because that's what they're instructed to do. I'm certain if Vern told the Blues that every tackle was to be a grass cutter, they'd have played that way.
The more I look at this Hoskins omission, the more unfathomable it becomes. Hansen's mealy mouth interview notwithstanding. I'd understand if they took another lock instead of Sititi. At least then you could say "we would've, but we needed a lock and hence he as a specialist 8 has to miss out. If Ardie gets injured he'll be called in."
One and a half weeks may not be long enough to change the things that have been hammered in during the entire SR season
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Photo of the week: Ardie Savea playing club rugby for Ories on Saturday. Maybe if the Wellington player didn't tackle his own player they would have more of chance of stopping Savea.
Ories won this game 90-7
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As for tackle height, I'd venture that Chiefs coaches were more onto emphasising low hits than Blues.
Interestingly it was something highlighted by Hansen, so ABs also emphasize low tackle height. They look at how the international game is reffed, much harsher than SR, and low tackling is a key part of what they want. It may be that the Blues style of choke tackling to slow the opposition down hasn't helped their case with the ABs
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
I highly doubt they think they can't coach.
It's the logical conclusion from the premise they're selecting players who played a certain way that they can't get players to adjust.
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
Someone spit in your coffee this morning or are you being deliberately obtuse?
Hopefully nobody spat in my coffee. Do you really think they believe they can't coach?
No, the hyperbole is that it would be a very odd reason to make certain selections: "They tackle low and that's how we want to play." Surely the best individuals in the best teams play a certain way because that's what they're instructed to do. I'm certain if Vern told the Blues that every tackle was to be a grass cutter, they'd have played that way.
The more I look at this Hoskins omission, the more unfathomable it becomes. Hansen's mealy mouth interview notwithstanding. I'd understand if they took another lock instead of Sititi. At least then you could say "we would've, but we needed a lock and hence he as a specialist 8 has to miss out. If Ardie gets injured he'll be called in."
It's obviously pure speculation on all our parts but I too would have liked to have seen him selected. As an extension of what you originally typed maybe they don't think they can coach Sotutu to play a certain way, especially given the short time frame? I don't necessarily see that as a slight against either side.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As for tackle height, I'd venture that Chiefs coaches were more onto emphasising low hits than Blues.
Interestingly it was something highlighted by Hansen, so ABs also emphasize low tackle height. They look at how the international game is reffed, much harsher than SR, and low tackling is a key part of what they want. It may be that the Blues style of choke tackling to slow the opposition down hasn't helped their case with the ABs
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
I highly doubt they think they can't coach.
It's the logical conclusion from the premise they're selecting players who played a certain way that they can't get players to adjust.
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
Someone spit in your coffee this morning or are you being deliberately obtuse?
Hopefully nobody spat in my coffee. Do you really think they believe they can't coach?
No, the hyperbole is that it would be a very odd reason to make certain selections: "They tackle low and that's how we want to play." Surely the best individuals in the best teams play a certain way because that's what they're instructed to do. I'm certain if Vern told the Blues that every tackle was to be a grass cutter, they'd have played that way.
The more I look at this Hoskins omission, the more unfathomable it becomes. Hansen's mealy mouth interview notwithstanding. I'd understand if they took another lock instead of Sititi. At least then you could say "we would've, but we needed a lock and hence he as a specialist 8 has to miss out. If Ardie gets injured he'll be called in."
One and a half weeks may not be long enough to change the things that have been hammered in during the entire SR season
On the other hand, will they really contemplate throwing a debutant (Sititi) in the deep end vs England? I don't think he would start, but if someone goes down and he was on the bench, will they be comfortable with that outcome? Or is he a project that they feel would benefit with a little time in camp, with Blackadder or Paps on the bench as cover? If they saw Hoskins as someone who was close and needed to iron out a few things, surely he would best do that in camp also? So many questions
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
With Blues having 70% possession on occasion, straight tackles/match comparisons are bound to be misleading.
That's what I thought too.
2 cents rugby said the Chiefs made only 2% more tackles than the Blues over the season. -
@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
With Blues having 70% possession on occasion, straight tackles/match comparisons are bound to be misleading.
That's what I thought too.
2 cents rugby said the Chiefs made only 2% more tackles than the Blues over the season.100%. A possession dominant pack's forwards make less tackles? Quelle surprise. Sometimes metrics don't mean what people think they mean. As much as I like us to have the ability to score from anywhere, the ability to keep possession for long periods, to control the field position and the clock can be a very good thing
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
Or it was regarded as one of his work-ons and he hasn't improved it.
I'd say they are concerned about a lack of defensive abrasiveness / workrate.
Truth is, none of us know.
The implications being thrown around by some are spitting are deadset pathetic - Razor's a racist, Razor can't think separately from Ryan, Razor can't coach (7 Super titles lol)
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
Or it was regarded as one of his work-ons and he hasn't improved it.
I'd say they are concerned about a lack of defensive abrasiveness / workrate.
Truth is, none of us know.
The implications being thrown around by some are spitting are deadset pathetic - Razor's a racist, Razor can't think separately from Ryan, Razor can't coach (7 Super titles lol)
Based on his body of work, what his players from the teams he coaches say about him, the sky doco on telly at the moment, Razor seems like a simple straight up guy. He only has a limited number of places to fill and he's picked who he thinks can do the job. We will see how that turns out, it will be interesting to see how the year has gone looking back after the EOYT in terms of playing style, if he has altered his player group, and of course if he's won games and played well
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
That just says to me that they think they can't coach.
Or it was regarded as one of his work-ons and he hasn't improved it.
I'd say they are concerned about a lack of defensive abrasiveness / workrate.
Anyone have comparative stats for "dominant tackles", or tackles that slow the ruck ball for the attackers? Questioning his work rate is laughable when looking at the stats - he's actively involved in both aspects of the game.
Truth is, none of us know.
No shit Frank, hence the conjecture.
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@antipodean
They don't like something.
That's for sure.
I'm going to go full Dan here and say I trust their judgement because it is now two head coaches who have rejected him. -
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Logic to me is that no one gets to the top of their chosen field if they don't think they can do the job.
Can we swap managers? Or are you referrring to the Dunning-Kruger effect?
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
With Blues having 70% possession on occasion, straight tackles/match comparisons are bound to be misleading.
That's what I thought too.
2 cents rugby said the Chiefs made only 2% more tackles than the Blues over the season.On the per 80mins stats it was 9% less. Blues defence numbers were unusual. The top 4 teams on the per 80mins tackles were the 4 other NZ sides.. Blues down in 8th
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@antipodean
They don't like something.
That's for sure.
I'm going to go full Dan here and say I trust their judgement because it is now two head coaches who have rejected him.The only disagreement I have with that is that both HCs are now in the same ABs coaching group. And yet Vern Cotter got the best out of Sotutu and Ioane, something Leon never could. (Which could be the pattern he played, or some relationship issue, or a rugby issue)
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
As I remember Sotutu played most games for the blues.
Siti didn’t start until Rd7 and only had two 20 min cameos of the bench before RD7 so stats are a bit false in a lot of ways.Yes per 80mins stats are normally useful but not in this situation
Sotutu played 80mins 12 times
Iose 4 times
Sititi onceAverage mins
Sotutu - 70mins
Iose - 56 (might be slighhtly off.. missing one game in the numbers)
Sititi - 47minsYou can't meaningfully compare per 80mins stats between someone who was actually playing 80mins and guys who were subs or left the field early. They don't have to deal with fatigue
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
It seems that Sotutu only being able to play no.8 has also counted against him. With Savea certain to start in that position versatility was important to the AB coaches.
i hope this isn't a huge facture.....very simply...Savea picks up a niggle and we dont have arguably the best 8 in the country available....see how quickly that approach falls over?
I'm not saying that I agree with their selection choices, only that I think that was part of their reasoning for doing it. It also appears that Sititi's performance in the SF against the Canes cemented their decision. So much for picking the squad before the playoffs.
