All Blacks 2024
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McKendry over-egging the first part here:
Playmaker Mo’unga still has two years remaining on his contract, with loose forward Frizell signed up for another year after this one. They are not contracted to New Zealand Rugby.
The pair, standouts at the last World Cup, are important players for their club – given their quality and recent form, they would be for any team – and are focusing on Toshiba’s playoff match against Suntory on Sunday. Toshiba have lost only one match all season.
It’s here that things start to unravel a little.
Both Robertson and New Zealand Rugby’s manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum have stated recently that they have been in talks with Mo’unga and Frizell about returning home as soon as possible.
Being so open about the potential for breaking contracts is an interesting approach not least because it has the potential to be unsettling for Mo’unga and Frizell, not to mention those at home who have committed to the New Zealand game - such as Mo’unga’s potential replacement Damian McKenzie.
It will likely be seen by all those connected with Toshiba as highly disrespectful too, particularly when it is not Toshiba’s contract preventing Mo’unga and Frizell from representing the All Blacks this year or any other, but New Zealand Rugby’s own eligibility rules.
Again: Toshiba is not stopping Mo'unga and Frizell from playing for the All Blacks. New Zealand Rugby is.
Analysis: Razor should tread carefully through eligibility minefield
Attempts by the All Blacks head coach to persuade Richie Mo'unga and Shannon Frizell to break Japan contracts could backfire, writes Patrick McKendry.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
Does anyone on here, aside from maybe a few diehard Cantabs, really think he'd be any difference. He's not a great international 10, great Super 10 yes, but at test level he's no DC, or even AC, or BB in his ass kicking year (nearly a decade ago now).
Maybe he needs Surf Jesus to be that great 10? But it does make you wonder why he fucked off knowing Surf Jesus was coming in.
I was at the WC final, watching us run loop play after loop play for Mo'unga, until we finally got some payoff, then he missed the kick when it counted. I think my doubts about him are clear, especially as in that game we looked incredibly dangerous once Dmac came on and attacked the line - his passing has become a real weapon and it would be a shame if we were to lose him chasing a player who hasn't shown he can be the best player in the world at test level.
Mo'unga is the MVP of super rugby, best ever, I think that's clear, but his record as an international 10 is not good enough for this amount of speculation and supposed chasing.
At the end of the day, relationships with the incoming coach appear to be the key driver here, which is a terrible look for NZ rugby.
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AB Selection meetings:
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Counterfactual that can't be proven or disproven: There would hardly any chat about Mo'unga if the Crusaders were doing better. I suspect the secondary goal of fixing the Crusaders has a lot to do with the noise
I know there is a reasoned argument for it as @KiwiMurph I think has outlined, but the Burke overseas signing is another piece here. I still don't get why you would bolt when the road to an AB jersey (possible bench spot) is wide open.
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Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
The best one is Gregor Paul talking up how dangerous Finau is when Frizell literally got yellow carded for foul play in the WC final, then was anonymous.
It will also remain a source of frustration that Frizell, who by the end of last year had established himself as the All Blacks’ starting blindside and a genuine high-quality, international player, is not available this year.
And this is why Finau is making a few people nervous – he’s fantastically physical and dynamic, but he’s been a touch wild, most notably observed when he crunched Reds first-five Tom Lynagh earlier this season.
The pressure is on Razor to find the next All Blacks No 6
The durability and grunt of the legendary Jerome Kaino has proven difficult to replace at blindside for the All Blacks
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
plethora
I'm glad you used that word. It means a lot to me.
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I can understand, and to a point, applaud him trying to entice former ABs or even starting super players back to NZ as we know these players leaving is a problem and is eroding our depth, while also meaning the newbies dont have the more experienced players to learn from.
I mean the likes of Reihana and Hohepa would have been far better served in behind the likes of Mounga than actually trying to steer the ship, that is all but rudderless at the moment.
Depth creates competition, and competition will make us stronger.
And while it may be seen by some that the coaches dont trust the players they have currently, these guys are professional and know thier careers are short, and also know if they arent the best, someone else will come along and take thier spot, so strive to be the best, regardless of who might come back.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
Not helped by the two players he wants back would replace your boys - DMac and Finau - from the Chiefs.
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
Not helped by the two players he wants back would replace your boys - DMac and Finau - from the Chiefs.
Don't go there - provincial bias isn't what you want in the ABs. Mo'unga would be a step backwards, but moderately understandable - fucking Fritzel is going backwards bigtime. We've got 4 years, Frizzel is a band aid at best.
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Plus, if NZR was competent Foster would have been out after his first 2 year contract came up, Surf Jesus could have played Mo'unga and his Canterbury boys into the RWC and he'd either be taking some form of victory lap, or heading off to coach Bali national side and surfing during the off season
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
Not helped by the two players he wants back would replace your boys - DMac and Finau - from the Chiefs.
lol if you think i give even a solitary fuck about that
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i know im in the minority...but i wouldn't be too critical of a couple of losses this season if i could just see that they were trying to achieve something new, teething problems to implementing new gameplans or blooding new players
winning this year with guys that wont be around in 2027...or even worse trying the same players or techniques we've tried before and loosing....will fuck me off
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Sorry but did you just saw Hopefully McWhannell?! Plenty better talent than him around.
Name two eligible locks consistently playing better than he has been this SR.
Sure thing, here’s a few imo. His team mate Darry is better(granted injury concerns for him I know), Tupou Vaa’i, Caleb Delany being used as a lock at the Canes and has been brilliant. I’d even go as far as saying Dunshea since his return has played through the roof… shit id even say Hannah down here in Christchurch has a bright future and would consider him over McWhannell.
Respect your opinion mate, just in my opinion we could do better. Let’s just hope Quinton Strange isn’t picked.
Good post. I've gone back and had a more detailed look. Darry I agree probably has a higher ceiling, but he's still not doing enough, especially at the lineout for the Blues, nor in attack with the ball. Vaa'i surprises me because he's second only to Tuipulotu in carrying. He's also busy in defence.
McWhannell is a busy player in all aspects, but his defence may be a relative weakness.
I'd caution against Dunshea's play at this stage since he's only played donkey teams; Force, Moana Pacifica and Crusaders.
Delany is a good candidate though. Be interesting to see their relative form into the finals.
If Strange is selected, there should be some searching questions directed at the coaches.
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Some quite bizarre speculation and teeth knashing about Razor's selections going on in this thread considering he hasn't even selected a squad yet. It's almost as though wives and girlfriends have hacked people's accounts.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
'Stop talking about things I don't like'
Serious question, is the rest of NZ and other sections of social media expressing the same sentiments? I am not on social media so I wouldn't know.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
'Stop talking about things I don't like'
Serious question, is the rest of NZ and other sections of social media expressing the same sentiments? I am not on social media so I wouldn't know.
are you actually asking if the general population has the same level of interest and speculation as a dedicated forum to NZ rugby....dude....if you're here you are well and truely down the rabbit hole
and as for the fact razor hasn't actually dropped a squad yet...george33 had said at least some things are locked in...and thats ll i need
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
'Stop talking about things I don't like'
Serious question, is the rest of NZ and other sections of social media expressing the same sentiments? I am not on social media so I wouldn't know.
are you actually asking if the general population has the same level of interest and speculation as a dedicated forum to NZ rugby....dude....if you're here you are well and truely down the rabbit hole
and as for the fact razor hasn't actually dropped a squad yet...george33 had said at least some things are locked in...and thats ll i need
Like others I live in a bubble where I am the only one that gives a shit about rugby. With not being on social media to get another gauge on what people are thinking I was curious. I find it interesting that's all.
Some of the speculation reminds me of the time I was in trouble because my girlfriend at the time dreamt I had done something wrong.
