All Blacks 2024
-
@Machpants I never said I was a huge fan of Frizzell, I just pointed out that he suited the way they wanted to play ahead of other options. It also didn't make Savea exclusive to not tackling at all, his job was more to hunt for the ball on defence, and carry as much as possible, be that from the base of the ruck or as first receiver.
I don't know how they want to set up this season, but going by these guys sides in the past, I'd be surprised if Sotutu and Savea started together. Not saying it's right or wrong, just trying to see how they fit them both in if they play in a similar manner this year.
-
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It was his first game in 2 months and people expected him to be playing the house down after watching Savea play for 2 months straight
and this is where our current season structure just sucks. Once super rugby finishes, these guys don't get to play high level rugby unless they are in the test team.
There could be an interesting idea there to build an NZ specific model to allow that focused on what NZR really cares about - the AB brand.
It would require cooperation from Oz and SA though, so I don't like the chances, however, if SANZAAR allowed two teams from the Pacific Nations Cup to come up to the Rugby Championship (likely Fiji and Japan who could play off with the other nations to allow movement between the competitions), we could add the ABXV or Maori AB team to that competition (likely alongside Australia A). If OZ didn't or couldn't participate, we could have two teams in the competition.
We could then have at least one of our second teams competing against Samoa, Tonga, USA, and Canada. Whether the level of that competition is stronger or weaker than NPC is a separate question, but it would allow for collaboration across the two squads and have guys in the next tier playing if and when injuries strike.
Feel free to bag this, I'm not wedded to it, just putting it up for discussion.
Or a second tier championship with islands, AB XV and Oz XV, and maybe Japan?
Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan, USA, Canada make up the Pacific Nations Cup, hence move two of those to Rugby Championship to add our two teams (or perhaps one from Oz).
-
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
We did see that at the end of that draw against England where Sotutu replaced Papalii so we had a loose forward trio of Savea, Frizell and Sotutu for the last 7 or so mins. While only for a short time, I remember Sotutu looking a little lost as Ardie never changed his role.
-
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I don't think selections were the previous coaching group's biggest problem. They always seemed to reward Super rugby form (Lack of "deep analysis"?)
so ... selection issues were the biggest problem?
-
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Savea is a world class 7 or 8.
It's definitely worth giving Sotutu and Iose a run.Savea is a world class rugby player, but, there's a myth been built up about his abilities as an out and out 7. He's started at 13 tests as a 7.
His world class rugby has been at 8 and previous to that as a super sub.
-
@Darren said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I take all that with a grain of salt.
What has he really said? I believe it is the media looking for drama where there really isn't any.Would you like to see Mo'unga come back?
Of courseAnd there is your headline
@DaGrubster I think also commented on this.
There is some development since the previous interview, Razor himself is interviewed in this article:
Robertson confirmed he had been in talks with Richie Mo'unga and Shannon Frizell, now at Toshiba.
The pair are part-way through the first year of two-year deals with the Japan club and it would require something remarkable to get them home early. Robertson appears up for the task, however.
"My job is to get the best players for the All Blacks," he said. "I'm not going to talk on individual players but I need the best available players for our country. What goes on behind the scenes — we have to be professional around the employment stuff."
Razor on Crusaders' collapse: 'It's been a ride'
The new All Blacks head coach talks about the Crusaders, Sam Cane's announcement, what he is seeking in a captain, and some good news on Will Jordan.
-
Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
-
Who next? Jack Goodhue? Karl Tu'inukuafe?
-
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
Does anyone on here, aside from maybe a few diehard Cantabs, really think he'd be any difference. He's not a great international 10, great Super 10 yes, but at test level he's no DC, or even AC, or BB in his ass kicking year (nearly a decade ago now).
Maybe he needs Surf Jesus to be that great 10? But it does make you wonder why he fucked off knowing Surf Jesus was coming in.
-
McKendry over-egging the first part here:
Playmaker Mo’unga still has two years remaining on his contract, with loose forward Frizell signed up for another year after this one. They are not contracted to New Zealand Rugby.
The pair, standouts at the last World Cup, are important players for their club – given their quality and recent form, they would be for any team – and are focusing on Toshiba’s playoff match against Suntory on Sunday. Toshiba have lost only one match all season.
It’s here that things start to unravel a little.
Both Robertson and New Zealand Rugby’s manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum have stated recently that they have been in talks with Mo’unga and Frizell about returning home as soon as possible.
Being so open about the potential for breaking contracts is an interesting approach not least because it has the potential to be unsettling for Mo’unga and Frizell, not to mention those at home who have committed to the New Zealand game - such as Mo’unga’s potential replacement Damian McKenzie.
It will likely be seen by all those connected with Toshiba as highly disrespectful too, particularly when it is not Toshiba’s contract preventing Mo’unga and Frizell from representing the All Blacks this year or any other, but New Zealand Rugby’s own eligibility rules.
Again: Toshiba is not stopping Mo'unga and Frizell from playing for the All Blacks. New Zealand Rugby is.
Attempts by the All Blacks head coach to persuade Richie Mo'unga and Shannon Frizell to break Japan contracts could backfire, writes Patrick McKendry.
-
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
Does anyone on here, aside from maybe a few diehard Cantabs, really think he'd be any difference. He's not a great international 10, great Super 10 yes, but at test level he's no DC, or even AC, or BB in his ass kicking year (nearly a decade ago now).
Maybe he needs Surf Jesus to be that great 10? But it does make you wonder why he fucked off knowing Surf Jesus was coming in.
I was at the WC final, watching us run loop play after loop play for Mo'unga, until we finally got some payoff, then he missed the kick when it counted. I think my doubts about him are clear, especially as in that game we looked incredibly dangerous once Dmac came on and attacked the line - his passing has become a real weapon and it would be a shame if we were to lose him chasing a player who hasn't shown he can be the best player in the world at test level.
Mo'unga is the MVP of super rugby, best ever, I think that's clear, but his record as an international 10 is not good enough for this amount of speculation and supposed chasing.
At the end of the day, relationships with the incoming coach appear to be the key driver here, which is a terrible look for NZ rugby.
-
AB Selection meetings:
-
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Counterfactual that can't be proven or disproven: There would hardly any chat about Mo'unga if the Crusaders were doing better. I suspect the secondary goal of fixing the Crusaders has a lot to do with the noise
I know there is a reasoned argument for it as @KiwiMurph I think has outlined, but the Burke overseas signing is another piece here. I still don't get why you would bolt when the road to an AB jersey (possible bench spot) is wide open.
-
Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
The best one is Gregor Paul talking up how dangerous Finau is when Frizell literally got yellow carded for foul play in the WC final, then was anonymous.
It will also remain a source of frustration that Frizell, who by the end of last year had established himself as the All Blacks’ starting blindside and a genuine high-quality, international player, is not available this year.
And this is why Finau is making a few people nervous – he’s fantastically physical and dynamic, but he’s been a touch wild, most notably observed when he crunched Reds first-five Tom Lynagh earlier this season.
The pressure is on Razor to find the next All Blacks No 6
The durability and grunt of the legendary Jerome Kaino has proven difficult to replace at blindside for the All Blacks
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
plethora
I'm glad you used that word. It means a lot to me.
