All Blacks 2024
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'd wager Tom Christie is a better chance to make the ABs than some of those Hurricanes loose forwards.
Doubt it, he’s been dropped from the Saders 23. I’d give him almost no chance of making it but that’s just my view. He tackles a lot but that’s about it.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'd wager Tom Christie is a better chance to make the ABs than some of those Hurricanes loose forwards.
I don't buy it. Just because he has favoured Christie as the best option at 7 for Crusaders (in previous seasons) that doesn't mean he sees Chrstie as being among the best half dozen or so loosies in NZ in 2024.
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@Bovidae we might aswell get used to the ABs losing if they select Christie. One of the main reasons for the Crusaders poor season to date is their lack of go forward, Christie has been a big part of that issue. He would be even less impactful at international level. I hope Robertson doesn’t turn a position of potential strength for us into a glaring weakness.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae we might aswell get used to the ABs losing if they select Christie. One of the main reasons for the Crusaders poor season to date is their lack of go forward, Christie has been a big part of that issue. He would be even less impactful at international level. I hope Robertson doesn’t turn a position of potential strength for us into a glaring weakness.
I can not see Christie in the AB frame,The crusaders should stick with Lilo-Willie at 8,Grace at 6,Blackadder at 7 and Kellow off the bench.
I would be very disappointed if they changed that combo for Christie to be included -
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris as I see it atm, if we are selecting 7 loose forwards I'd hope Razor's loose forward mix will look something like the below. I've given each player a percentage of what I think their chances of being selected are right now, assuming Razor will pick a few Crusaders players even though they've been mostly ordinary all year.
Certainties
- Ardie Savea - coming back from Japan. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Samipeni Finau - his physical attributes will be hard to ignore - Chances of being selected - 100%
- Hoskins Sotutu - has really upped his work-rate this year, he's too hard to ignore. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Dalton Papali'i - his form has been great this year. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Ethan Blackadder - he's gods gift and one of Blackadder's favourite players. Chances of being selected - 100%
In the frame
- Peter Lakai - has been one of the strongest carriers in Super Rugby and has the physical attributes to be a superb international loose forward, may be too early for him though. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Christian Lio-Willie - had a great game last week but he needs to show that against better teams. High work-rate and that's what Razor likes. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Brayden Iose - has been dynamite this year but hit a road block last week against the Brums. He offers so much x-factor off the back of the scrum and could be a weapon coming off the bench as an impact player. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Luke Jacobsen - was completely outplayed a couple weeks ago against the Canes but has very strong leadership skills. Has opportunity to play his way into the mixer with a few more strong performances to finish out the Super season. Chances of being selected - 50%
- Billy Harmon - was on my AB radar at the beginning of the season but the Highlanders form has probably impacted his form somewhat. Still a guy I'd pick for the ABs. I'd have him over Cane. Chances of being selected - 40%
- Cullen Grace - has plenty of support from inside the Crusaders so wouldn't be surprised if he was selected, I just don't see it though. He simply hasn't been good enough IMO. Far too inconsistent. Chances of being selected - 30%
- Brad Shields - he's been awesome for the Canes and he's probably the other physical 6 that can match Finau. Age will be against him here though. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Du Plessis Kirifi - had a chance to stake a claim against the Brumbies but didn't perform to the standard expected. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Devan Flanders - has all the attributes for international rugby but probably lacks a little bit of physicality to stake a claim for an AB just yet. If he can mature and become more physical he could be a mainstay in the ABs by the World Cup. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Hugh Renton - started off the season in great nick and was probably the best Highlanders player before getting injured. Needs to show that he can play for a lengthy period without breaking down. Chances of being selected - 10%
- Wallace Sititi - 100% a player of the future but probably a little too young for me. Chances of being selected - 10%
Dead and buried.
- Sam Cane - the All Blacks need to move on from Cane IMO, he no longer warrants automatic selection for me. Chances of being selected - 10%
- Akira Ioane - another player that's far too inconsistent. Drifts in and out of games far too often and won't be a guy that Robertson will even think about TBH. His inability to perform in big games previously will haunt him. Chances of being selected - 10%
The 7 players that I think will be picked by for the squad against England.
- Ardie Savea (Hurricanes)
- Samipeni Finau (Chiefs)
- Hoskins Sotutu (Blues)
- Dalton Papali'i (Crusaders)
- Ethan Blackadder (Crusaders)
- Christian Lio-Willie (Crusaders) - gets in over Brayden Iose because Razor has worked with him before.
- Peter Lakai (Hurricanes)
You genuinely think the incumbent All Blacks captain and No 7 has just a 10% chance of being selected and is behind Billy Harmon and Du'Plessis Kirifi in the pecking order?
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I reckon Kirifi has almost zero chance, I say almost cos he is clearly closer to selection than me.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.
One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.
Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.
I can't say I share your optimisim.
It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.
BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.
I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.
Yawn.
And I suppose everything would be ok if Mo’unga came back?
I’m not enthusiastic, this is just the reality of a World Cup cycle.
We’ve had plenty of years when incumbents weren’t playing that well. If Perofeta is losing out to Plummer and Razor wants form, then fine that’s how selection works, pick him.
If he wants experience with test rugby, he has three options and since he’s surf fucking Jesus, he can fucking coach them.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.
One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.
Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.
I can't say I share your optimisim.
It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.
BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.
I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.
Yawn.
And I suppose everything would be ok if Mo’unga came back?
I’m not enthusiastic, this is just the reality of a World Cup cycle.
We’ve had plenty of years when incumbents weren’t playing that well. If Perofeta is losing out to Plummer and Razor wants form, then fine that’s how selection works, pick him.
If he wants experience with test rugby, he has three options and since he’s surf fucking Jesus, he can fucking coach them.
You can not coach trash it stays as trash you have to have some talent to coach and you have mentioned fuck all talent..
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.
One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.
Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.
I can't say I share your optimisim.
It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.
BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.
I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.
Yawn.
And I suppose everything would be ok if Mo’unga came back?
I’m not enthusiastic, this is just the reality of a World Cup cycle.
We’ve had plenty of years when incumbents weren’t playing that well. If Perofeta is losing out to Plummer and Razor wants form, then fine that’s how selection works, pick him.
If he wants experience with test rugby, he has three options and since he’s surf fucking Jesus, he can fucking coach them.
You can not coach trash it stays as trash you have to have some talent to coach and you have mentioned fuck all talent..
So it is what I think it is - people getting in to trash the available players because they are worried that the All Blacks might lose a few games, and therefore Razor might not look like he has a golden asshole.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris as I see it atm, if we are selecting 7 loose forwards I'd hope Razor's loose forward mix will look something like the below. I've given each player a percentage of what I think their chances of being selected are right now, assuming Razor will pick a few Crusaders players even though they've been mostly ordinary all year.
Certainties
- Ardie Savea - coming back from Japan. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Samipeni Finau - his physical attributes will be hard to ignore - Chances of being selected - 100%
- Hoskins Sotutu - has really upped his work-rate this year, he's too hard to ignore. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Dalton Papali'i - his form has been great this year. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Ethan Blackadder - he's gods gift and one of Blackadder's favourite players. Chances of being selected - 100%
In the frame
- Peter Lakai - has been one of the strongest carriers in Super Rugby and has the physical attributes to be a superb international loose forward, may be too early for him though. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Christian Lio-Willie - had a great game last week but he needs to show that against better teams. High work-rate and that's what Razor likes. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Brayden Iose - has been dynamite this year but hit a road block last week against the Brums. He offers so much x-factor off the back of the scrum and could be a weapon coming off the bench as an impact player. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Luke Jacobsen - was completely outplayed a couple weeks ago against the Canes but has very strong leadership skills. Has opportunity to play his way into the mixer with a few more strong performances to finish out the Super season. Chances of being selected - 50%
- Billy Harmon - was on my AB radar at the beginning of the season but the Highlanders form has probably impacted his form somewhat. Still a guy I'd pick for the ABs. I'd have him over Cane. Chances of being selected - 40%
- Cullen Grace - has plenty of support from inside the Crusaders so wouldn't be surprised if he was selected, I just don't see it though. He simply hasn't been good enough IMO. Far too inconsistent. Chances of being selected - 30%
- Brad Shields - he's been awesome for the Canes and he's probably the other physical 6 that can match Finau. Age will be against him here though. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Du Plessis Kirifi - had a chance to stake a claim against the Brumbies but didn't perform to the standard expected. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Devan Flanders - has all the attributes for international rugby but probably lacks a little bit of physicality to stake a claim for an AB just yet. If he can mature and become more physical he could be a mainstay in the ABs by the World Cup. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Hugh Renton - started off the season in great nick and was probably the best Highlanders player before getting injured. Needs to show that he can play for a lengthy period without breaking down. Chances of being selected - 10%
- Wallace Sititi - 100% a player of the future but probably a little too young for me. Chances of being selected - 10%
Dead and buried.
- Sam Cane - the All Blacks need to move on from Cane IMO, he no longer warrants automatic selection for me. Chances of being selected - 10%
- Akira Ioane - another player that's far too inconsistent. Drifts in and out of games far too often and won't be a guy that Robertson will even think about TBH. His inability to perform in big games previously will haunt him. Chances of being selected - 10%
The 7 players that I think will be picked by for the squad against England.
- Ardie Savea (Hurricanes)
- Samipeni Finau (Chiefs)
- Hoskins Sotutu (Blues)
- Dalton Papali'i (Crusaders)
- Ethan Blackadder (Crusaders)
- Christian Lio-Willie (Crusaders) - gets in over Brayden Iose because Razor has worked with him before.
- Peter Lakai (Hurricanes)
You genuinely think the incumbent All Blacks captain and No 7 has just a 10% chance of being selected and is behind Billy Harmon and Du'Plessis Kirifi in the pecking order?
Yeah I do because Razor’s in charge, he’s not going to waste time on a player that was only just holding his spot last year and to me is on the decline with so many injuries. I might be wrong obviously but picking Cane who’s been injured recently for England is a huge risk. He won’t take too many in his first year as coach.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Hopefully we shouldn't read too much into Razor allegedly talking with the Crusaders about Havili at 10. His body of work in that position is minimal and it's not unreasonable for Razor to want a look given our resources. FWIW, I' d hate to see Havili at 10 for the ABs unless there are exceptional circumstances. Jeez I don't even like him there for the Saders, but I am softening to that idea this season.
TBH I think he'd be better suited to playing 10 than 12. I think most of his career appears to be a case of playing him where they can simply because in other positions there's a better option.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Christie wasn't dropped last round, he was rested.
I don't rate him that highly myself but maybe Ryan does, as he was a replacement player for the NZ XV last year.
REPLACEMENT player for AB XV... meaning he didn't make the initial AB XV squad which had the following loosies:
Billy Harmon (28, Highlanders, Canterbury)
Akira Ioane (28, Blues, Auckland)
Du’Plessis Kirifi (26, Hurricanes, Wellington)
Christian Lio-Willie (24, Crusaders, Otago)
Pita Gus Sowakula (28, Chiefs, Taranaki)
Cameron Suafoa (27, Blues, North Harbour) -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.
One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.
Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.
I can't say I share your optimisim.
It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.
BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.
I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.
Yawn.
And I suppose everything would be ok if Mo’unga came back?
I’m not enthusiastic, this is just the reality of a World Cup cycle.
We’ve had plenty of years when incumbents weren’t playing that well. If Perofeta is losing out to Plummer and Razor wants form, then fine that’s how selection works, pick him.
If he wants experience with test rugby, he has three options and since he’s surf fucking Jesus, he can fucking coach them.
You can not coach trash it stays as trash you have to have some talent to coach and you have mentioned fuck all talent..
So it is what I think it is - people getting in to trash the available players because they are worried that the All Blacks might lose a few games, and therefore Razor might not look like he has a golden asshole.
No just someone who dislikes a coach and has to talk some trash not looking at you off course.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.
One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.
Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.
I can't say I share your optimisim.
It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.
BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.
I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.
Yawn.
And I suppose everything would be ok if Mo’unga came back?
I’m not enthusiastic, this is just the reality of a World Cup cycle.
We’ve had plenty of years when incumbents weren’t playing that well. If Perofeta is losing out to Plummer and Razor wants form, then fine that’s how selection works, pick him.
If he wants experience with test rugby, he has three options and since he’s surf fucking Jesus, he can fucking coach them.
You can not coach trash it stays as trash you have to have some talent to coach and you have mentioned fuck all talent..
So it is what I think it is - people getting in to trash the available players because they are worried that the All Blacks might lose a few games, and therefore Razor might not look like he has a golden asshole.
No just someone who dislikes a coach and has to talk some trash not looking at you off course.
The distinction you are missing is that I don’t dislike Razor - he’s a question mark at international level as he should be. I 100% support the ABs and he’s our coach - I hope he’s great.
However, those who have his cock so far down their throats they can’t make rational comments about players, well that’s a bit different, not looking at you of course.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.
One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.
Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.
I can't say I share your optimisim.
It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.
BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.
I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.
Yawn.
And I suppose everything would be ok if Mo’unga came back?
I’m not enthusiastic, this is just the reality of a World Cup cycle.
We’ve had plenty of years when incumbents weren’t playing that well. If Perofeta is losing out to Plummer and Razor wants form, then fine that’s how selection works, pick him.
If he wants experience with test rugby, he has three options and since he’s surf fucking Jesus, he can fucking coach them.
You can not coach trash it stays as trash you have to have some talent to coach and you have mentioned fuck all talent..
So it is what I think it is - people getting in to trash the available players because they are worried that the All Blacks might lose a few games, and therefore Razor might not look like he has a golden asshole.
No just someone who dislikes a coach and has to talk some trash not looking at you off course.
The distinction you are missing is that I don’t dislike Razor - he’s a question mark at international level as he should be. I 100% support the ABs and he’s our coach - I hope he’s great.
However, those who have his cock so far down their throats they can’t make rational comments about players, well that’s a bit different, not looking at you of course.
Just as well,It shows you dislike him it is obvious.
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Someone like Perofeta has stacks of talent, you'd hope a good coach could help get the top two inches right and get him playing well more consistently. Which is basically the head coaches role. Razor has done well at Super level in this regard, so it'll be interesting to see if he can translate that to test level.
Overall, looking at the possible squads people have been naming, we are not lacking for talent so that just cannot be an excuse. A lot of other international coaches would love to have the quality of players Razor will have at his disposal.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Not really, we have five players available who have been capped and play first five, including three of the top four from recent AB squads.
One of those should be nowhere near an AB team, but the others are all reasonable choices. Dmac should be easily the first choice. We are fine.
Add in Plummer, Love, and even Burke (if available for this year) and we aren’t in bad shape.
I can't say I share your optimisim.
It was to be Perofeta's year to cement himself as an AB 10 and he's let it slip through his fingers, the Hurricane's own fans don't even rate Cameron, Love has spent the entire season at fullback, Ioane is a disaster. Plummer is the only one in decent form (at 1st 5) and he's more of a utility than a straight up first 5.
BB's best years at 1st 5 are well behind him, we're kinda left with the option of praying that DMac doesn't get injured.
I was really hoping that someone would come through but TBH the contenders appear to be getting worse not getting better.
Yawn.
And I suppose everything would be ok if Mo’unga came back?
I’m not enthusiastic, this is just the reality of a World Cup cycle.
We’ve had plenty of years when incumbents weren’t playing that well. If Perofeta is losing out to Plummer and Razor wants form, then fine that’s how selection works, pick him.
If he wants experience with test rugby, he has three options and since he’s surf fucking Jesus, he can fucking coach them.
You can not coach trash it stays as trash you have to have some talent to coach and you have mentioned fuck all talent..
So it is what I think it is - people getting in to trash the available players because they are worried that the All Blacks might lose a few games, and therefore Razor might not look like he has a golden asshole.
No just someone who dislikes a coach and has to talk some trash not looking at you off course.
The distinction you are missing is that I don’t dislike Razor - he’s a question mark at international level as he should be. I 100% support the ABs and he’s our coach - I hope he’s great.
However, those who have his cock so far down their throats they can’t make rational comments about players, well that’s a bit different, not looking at you of course.
Just as well,It shows you dislike him it is obvious.
Again, I think you mistake me not wanting to fellate him at any opportunity with a personal opinion on his coaching capability at international level.
Now, if he wins us a WC, all that will change.
