All Blacks 2024
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Dan54 I just don't see what makes him an international quality halfback compared to the other halfbacks floating around. He's not really a game breaker, his pass isn't necessarily rapid, his kicking game is inconsistent. Someone like Ratima who I know has plenty of work ons himself seems to have more upside tbh.
Did you listen to Bryn Hall on Aoteroa Rugby pod by any chance? He reckon Christie is the kind of 9 that Razor will like, he reckons he got a good pass etc, more or less the opposite of how you see him?
I not over the top with him, but do think he is better than many give him credit for is all. Though that's just my opinion of course, and don't claim to have watched him real close. I know a few on here were rubbishing Kirwan for suggesting he was the one who could well fill in, but I now listening to likes of Hall, Parsons etc who see a lot more of him than me, so am prepared to go along with them. -
@Dan54 hey, if he ends up being the top halfback while Roigard is out then good on him. I'm not trying to bag Christie I just personally don't see why he's our 2nd best halfback, maybe it's because he has experience?
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Dan54 hey, if he ends up being the top halfback while Roigard is out then good on him. I'm not trying to bag Christie I just personally don't see why he's our 2nd best halfback, maybe it's because he has experience?
Playing well, he is dynamite on defence and adequate with passing. We really don't build halfbacks who can pass well; Aaron Smith was the huge exception over the last decade.
I can see why Christie gets picked. I'd love there to be better options, but often people with better passes have other weaknesses. I struggle to understand why we don't develop better 9s - Nock, for instance, had all the attributes I reckon, but doesn't put it out on the park consistently.
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I would have had Roigard in the WC finals but I don't get the Christie negativity on here. He's a good player and deserves his AB spot
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@nzzp fair enough, hopefully he can bring that form into the ABs environment then and make a statement knowing that Roigard will be after that jersey when he returns.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp fair enough, hopefully he can bring that form into the ABs environment then and make a statement knowing that Roigard will be after that jersey when he returns.
He was better than I expected with his first season in teh ABs. But his form wasn't good last year - he stank up the joint at times.
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He's good at closing out a game, great defensive work and a good pass. But he's a bit slow at the ruck and not a first choice as a starting 9.
That said, it's probably between him and Fakatava to start.
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The problem with Christie is not the time he takes to get to breakdowns, but the delay before passing the ball. Even at SR level you can get in his face by flooding the breakdown and counter-rucking. We've seen that being more of a problem with the ABs and aggressive defences.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
often people with better passes have other weaknesses
like Nock, who, IMO was second to Smith with his passing, unfortunate he is so inconsistent, hesitant and doesn't boss his pack, mind you, no one does it quite like Smith did.
Hopefully Razor starts with a clean slate, and looks a bit beyond this guy having 20 caps vs this guy with none as a reason to pick or not to pick someone.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@akan004 It means a complete tear. The fear going forward would be a re-rupture. The good news seems to be that his cruciates are okay.
.I hope medicine has moved on in the last 20 years. I did something similar 20 years ago - tore the patella tendon off the shin bone. That was 2 months on my back with no weight bearing, and a total of about 9 months until I had rebuilt the muscle and flexibility that I had before the accident
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Roigard will have the best treatment and monitoring in the world. In the last 20 years they have improved massively on cruciate repair and knee treatment.
The outlook here is good. -
Fakatava has done nothing this year to justify his name being in the selection frame. For every good thing he does, he makes two or three bad decisions or passes. I'm not saying he won't get there with time, we all saw how good he was a few years back, but he's currently a shadow of that player and what he really needs now is consistent minutes on the park, not spending all his time on the training field.
I think we'll likely see Christie, Perenara and Ratima selected for the July Tests, with Roigard potentially returning to the mix for the EOYT. Fakatava should spend a full season playing for the Highlanders and Hawke's Bay.
Throughout the squad there shouldn't be too many changes...
Gone are Dane Coles, Nepo Laulala, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Shannon Frizell, Aaron Smith, Cam Roigard, Richie Mo'unga, Leicester Fainga'anuku and Will Jordan (injury).
Given the above turnover, it's unlikely that someone experienced like Ofa Tu'ungafasi (and still young, in propping terms) will miss out. Ardie Savea, Sam Cane and Beauden Barrett will all likely still be selected too.
Coles - Aumua
Laulala - Ma'u, Numia, Dyer
Whitelock/Retallick - Lord and Tuipulotu, Strange, Walker-Leawere, McWhannell
Frizell - Ioane or Sotutu, Grace
Smith/Roigard - Perenara and Ratima
Mo'unga - Love or Perofeta
Fainga'anuku - Narawa, Proctor
Jordan - Stevenson -
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Fakatava has done nothing this year to justify his name being in the selection frame. For every good thing he does, he makes two or three bad decisions or passes. I'm not saying he won't get there with time, we all saw how good he was a few years back, but he's currently a shadow of that player and what he really needs now is consistent minutes on the park, not spending all his time on the training field.
I think we'll likely see Christie, Perenara and Ratima selected for the July Tests, with Roigard potentially returning to the mix for the EOYT. Fakatava should spend a full season playing for the Highlanders and Hawke's Bay.
Throughout the squad there shouldn't be too many changes...
Gone are Dane Coles, Nepo Laulala, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Shannon Frizell, Aaron Smith, Cam Roigard, Richie Mo'unga, Leicester Fainga'anuku and Will Jordan (injury).
Given the above turnover, it's unlikely that someone experienced like Ofa Tu'ungafasi (and still young, in propping terms) will miss out. Ardie Savea, Sam Cane and Beauden Barrett will all likely still be selected too.
Coles - Aumua
Laulala - Ma'u, Numia, Dyer
Whitelock/Retallick - Lord and Tuipulotu, Strange, Walker-Leawere, McWhannell
Frizell - Ioane or Sotutu, Grace
Smith/Roigard - Perenara and Ratima
Mo'unga - Love or Perofeta
Fainga'anuku - Narawa, Proctor
Jordan - StevensonBower to replace Laulala rated highly by Ryan, even though he is a LH
he can cover TH so can Willliams. -
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Roigard will have the best treatment and monitoring in the world. In the last 20 years they have improved massively on cruciate repair and knee treatment.
The outlook here is good.With all due respect, that is absolute horseshit, unless he has suddenly been signed by the NFL and I missed it.
I hope that he'll have the best possible medical service of private providers available in NZ, but that's still likely miles behind the absolute best in the world.
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@gt12 what make you think NZ health care is miles behind the best in the world?....to the point you say suggesting it is horseshit? we have loads of contact sports players plus things like skiers, when mrs womble did her knee she had a surgeon that only did knees...all day...every day
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I was looking forward to the Roigard - DMac combo That's on hold now
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 Christie/ Beauden was probably going to be starting halves anyway, with Roigard of bench maybe,
No way, Roigard would have been the top halfback hands down. If not, the coaches have rocks in their head. Christie is just so damn average, anyone with half a brain can see that.
I still don't get the Christie hate, I thought that Roigard was better, but certainly doesn't make Christie rubbish. To many of us think you have one in a position and so the then rubbish others. I was pretty confident that Christie would be one of 3 halfbacks without Roigard's injury.
Being confident he'd be in the mix is one thing, easy to do when he's "experienced" and is getting the vast majority of minutes in his franchise. The problem is he is a bit shit comparatively speaking. He takes too long to make decisions at rucks. He often takes the wrong option. His passing is woeful; slow and inaccurate.
So in summing up his passing game isn't top drawer. There are others with better running games and his kicking isn't a defining characteristic of excellence. At best he's a fairly handy defender. And I don't subscribe that the sum of his game is better than the other options. Roigard was clearly better, as is TJP IMO who is more a 9.5 in the (slim) Weepu mold.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
This can mean complete tear but could also mean avulsion where Tibial tuberosity (bone) could get pulled off. Overall this is good news as the joint integrity is maintained.
When I ruptured my bicep tendon my surgeon explained how far progress had been made in her professional lifetime (over two decades). She said two things really mattered when it came to restoring performance (other than the difference between proximal and distal ruptures):
- Time of surgery after the traumatic event. The quicker you can be under surgery the better.
- Quality of rehab. Long term outlook, stick to the program and don't rush it or you'll likely find yourself back under the knife.
Effectively if all goes well you're unlikely to notice a difference. Hopefully for Cam that holds true for patella.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 what make you think NZ health care is miles behind the best in the world?....to the point you say suggesting it is horseshit? we have loads of contact sports players plus things like skiers, when mrs womble did her knee she had a surgeon that only did knees...all day...every day
Fuck kiwis make me laugh. It's a tiny country at the bottom of the world. It doesn't have the population (money), research facilities (money), or location (spillover effects) to be even close to the best in the world.
Not 1 NZ hospital makes it to the best 250 in general nor in Orthopedics and I wouldn't expect it too. I may have missed Dr Andrews or a similarly qualified expert starting an institute in Auckland rather than Florida. That's not to say there aren't potentially very good people in NZ, such as this guy who has some great experience in the States, but it would be a long bow to suggest that he is (1) the best in the world, (2) has access to the best resources for client care, and (3) can provide the best rehabilitation services in the world.
I've got a fair bit of experience with the NZ healthcare system (public and private) and some experience overseas at some very good institutions. NZ is not far from being third world. The private system gets it close to public systems in places like Japan but IMO still behind in terms of quality of care.
Doing knee surgeries everyday does not make you a world expert, especially in sports medicine. It's likely a good sign, but if they are not keeping up with absolute best practice, rehabilitation and research findings (for athletes), they'll likely be behind what is available in other countries.
Even if they are the best in NZ, they likely aren't the best in the world unless they live there for their kids schooling, the fishing, or whatever lifestyle factor they value.
I would have thought most of the above was relatively obvious.
We are hoping that Cam gets absolute world-class care.
