RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina
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It'll be such a funny feeling if we win the World Cup from here... it would be very un New Zealand of us... we always talk about other countries peaking to our level at World Cups, but it appears to be the opposite this time around. Will it change how we reflect on Foster? All things considered, think there are four top teams at this tournament (us included) so to win it will not be flook and will be rightly praised.
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@Victor-Meldrew unsure if he is.
There's nothing crueller in rugby than playing for third place at a Rugby World Cup.
Rather than draw a line under failure to win a semi-final, two teams' plans have to turn to playing for bronze, in a match that no side ever wants to play in.
For All Blacks veteran Dane Coles, doing so at this year's tournament in France is an outcome he's determined to avoid at all costs.
Dane Coles celebrates.
Dane Coles celebrates. Photo credit: Getty Images
With last weekend's victory over Ireland in Paris, the All Blacks have bought themselves another week at the World Cup, and will now face Argentina at the Stade de France on Saturday (NZ time) to book their spot to play for the Webb Ellis Cup.
But if there was any extra motivation needed, the All Blacks need look no further than what happened four years ago.
In eerily similar circumstances, Sir Steve Hansen's side put everything into a quarter-final win over Ireland, only to fall flat against England a week later, and end up facing Wales for third to finish their tournament.
This time around, though, the All Blacks assert those lessons have been learned. In his final days as an All Black, Coles knows the highs and lows of World Cups.
A winner in 2015, the 36-year-old also had to end his campaign with bronze in Japan.
And now, as he prepares for the end of his professional career altogether, Coles wants to sign off playing for New Zealand's fourth World Cup triumph.
"I don't want to be playing in a third/fourth game again, like we did in 2019," said Coles. "That's my motivation. It's a s**t week if I'm being brutally honest, playing for third and fourth, getting knocked out of a semi.
"Regardless of who you're playing, it doesn't matter. You're playing in the semi-final of a World Cup.
"If you don't turn up, you're in for a week that tests you mentally, physically and emotionally.
"I want to make sure I turn up. Wherever I am this week, regardless of playing the Pumas, [I'll] try to get another Monday.
"It's not [about] who the opposition is, it's about us getting to the ultimate goal of playing a World Cup final. All our energy is in this semi-final."
Given the nature of the shorter, six-day turnaround, the All Blacks' week becomes even more difficult.
Mentally, the team have to completely remove success against Ireland from their minds, and prepare for the challenge of Los Pumas.
And given the way the team peaked in the quarter-final four years ago, Coles says the All Blacks can't settle for anything other than improvement.
"We'll take a lot of confidence, but we have to go to another gear," he said. "We've all seen, the World Cups are very different, with the results over the weekend.
Dane Coles and Ardie Savea.
Dane Coles and Ardie Savea. Photo credit: Getty Images
"They're going to be a different beast. It wasn't that long ago that we lost to them in New Zealand for the first time.
"We know when they're in a good spot, and they turn up, they're a physical team. It's crucial we lift to another gear and go again."
Argentina's recent history against the All Blacks is nothing to be baulked at either.
In the Ian Foster era, Argentina defeated New Zealand for the first time in 2020 with a backs-to-the-wall win in Syndey.
Then, last year, Los Pumas went one better, and defeated the All Blacks on home soil in Christchurch, the test after Foster saved his job with victory away in Johannesburg.
As part of both All Blacks sides to have suffered those losses, Coles admits the fear of doing it again on the biggest stage is fuelling his need to win come Saturday.
"I've been in the team that lost to them in Aussie, lost to them in New Zealand," he said. "That caused the team a lot of hurt. I personally still have that fear.
'Fire in everyone's belly': All Blacks want more after toppling world No.1 Ireland
"That fear drives you. It's good to have that knowledge, let it energise you and get you to a place where you need to be."
All up, the All Blacks have played Argentina 36 times, winning 33 losing two and drawing one.
In World Cups, the two sides have met three times, with the All Blacks winning all three.
Join Newshub from 8am Saturday for live updates of the All Blacks v Argentina Rugby World Cup semi-final
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@antipodean said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants they can't do rehab in their current hotel?
Just breaks the normal routine, shit org but the French
I think it's Cheik building up the narrative.
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@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Will it change how we reflect on Foster?
I'll certainly give due for a RWC triumph, if that happens. But it doesn't balance out the previous 4 years of turd like rugby, and stupid conservativity. For ex, it took a bloody series loss to Ireland before they changed their defensive system - something that has been pushed for here since we before he took over.
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@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Will it change how we reflect on Foster?
not for me, i dont view the RWC like some, his role in making watching the AB so much less enjoyable over the last four years isn't outweighed by winning it.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Will it change how we reflect on Foster?
not for me, i dont view the RWC like some, his role in making watching the AB so much less enjoyable over the last four years isn't outweighed by winning it.
a great, and unexpected achievement
that will only serve to make me ask "so what the fuck was up with the last 4 years?"
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No, there is no fucking way they change the team other than MT coming in and possibly CR on to the reserves? Why change? I thought the whole fucking point of rotating the team through the pool stages was to keep the team fresh? Now after one big game you want to change? Seriously, most of the team played 100 less mins than the Irish. This game is bigger than the QF. If we make it through, the team will have only played two tests together since the world cop opener 7 weeks prior. I'm sorry but there's just no way. The blokes not in the match day 23 will already know barring injuries, they won't be involved other than to keep shit real during trainings. All that said, Argentina by 5.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Will it change how we reflect on Foster?
not for me, i dont view the RWC like some, his role in making watching the AB so much less enjoyable over the last four years isn't outweighed by winning it.
Whether he wins or not, the Irish series, the hidings to France, SA and Argentina are inexcusable. I congratulate Foster for getting the job done to date in the RWC but a RWC win doesn't erase 4 years of pain. There are some records in there that will never get back.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Will it change how we reflect on Foster?
not for me, i dont view the RWC like some, his role in making watching the AB so much less enjoyable over the last four years isn't outweighed by winning it.
Whether he wins or not, the Irish series, the hidings to France, SA and Argentina are inexcusable. I congratulate Foster for getting the job done to date in the RWC but a RWC win doesn't erase 4 years of pain. There are some records in there that will never get back.
i actually dont like him as a person from what i see in the press conferences etc...he actually seems bloody smug and unapologetic...would happy give everything away to win the RWC and think thats fine
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Will it change how we reflect on Foster?
not for me, i dont view the RWC like some, his role in making watching the AB so much less enjoyable over the last four years isn't outweighed by winning it.
Whether he wins or not, the Irish series, the hidings to France, SA and Argentina are inexcusable. I congratulate Foster for getting the job done to date in the RWC but a RWC win doesn't erase 4 years of pain. There are some records in there that will never get back.
i actually dont like him as a person from what i see in the press conferences etc...he actually seems bloody smug and unapologetic...would happy give everything away to win the RWC and think thats fine
I reckon he'd be a good yarn over a beer. But as a professional coach, of the ABs no less, I expect better. I don't care that France and Ireland got better. Records have fallen and they're inexcusable. The hurt i saw in blokes like Justin Marshall's eyes after the Ireland series then SA where we were lucky we didn't trip over the painted lines broke me.
Still, that's in the past for now. Come Saturday or whenever the SF is, I'll be wearing my ABs presentation tracksuit, jersey, socks and hat again willing them on with every ounce of my voice. And what's left of my out of date Speights.
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@booboo said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Think we'll win
Think it will be close as we'll be flat after today, and we'll labour through it. Argentina will be more energetic
That classic come down. Happened so often to so many teams.
This team has a such a big chip on their shoulders and a superior siege mentality, forged by their shit record over the last 4 years and fuelled by all of those doubters within and without New Zealand. We are usually the front runners not the underdog. I wonder how much the desire to prove everyone wrong will counteract any subconscious feeling that they should win this comfortably
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@canefan i hope youre right...im worried ireland was our final...or a blip...like when we thought the tide had turned after the RC...and then we got SA and France
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@canefan i hope youre right...im worried ireland was our final...or a blip...like when we thought the tide had turned after the RC...and then we got SA and France
But, are Argentina better than us 9/10? For all we know they played their final against Wales such as their tournament to date. I would wage we have more left in the tank than them. I did however predict Ireland to wipe the floor with us and will do the same this week.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
then we got SA and France
I think those results were outliers, particularly the SA game, almost everything that could go wrong, did and we were rightfully spanked.
The French game we were in it with 30 to go, but some seemingly pre-ordained subs and some standard poor kicking from us saw everything change.
As I have said (with hope more than anything) was that Fozzie had thrown an awful lot into timing the run into the RWC, he was not concerned about losing the French test, despite the aim should be to win every game, they also had a plan to deal with Ireland (dryest of powder) I reckon similarly they will have something for Argies, and Coles said the hurt is there from when they beat us and from 2019, so hopefully there is enough fire there to get them to the final, and given how light our pool was, and if we win, we should hit the final with pretty much the right amount of wear and tear on the team...IMO of course
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@taniwharugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
I think those results were outliers, particularly the SA game, almost everything that could go wrong, did and we were rightfully spanked.
I really hope the SA loss was becuase the team was in strength/conditioning mode, and putting a heavy training load into the players.
I fear it may be because our kicking suuuuucks
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Argentina have been bang average this RWC. They were also losing to Wales until they got a bit of luck. Provided we are not complacent we should do this comfortably enough. I’d bring telea and roigard back in, otherwise no changes
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
he actually seems bloody smug and unapologetic
What does Steve Hansen have to do with this?
