NZR review
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@Dan54 was it? thats not how i took it at all, dont feel any of them was even playing devils advocate
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@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Dan54 was it? thats not how i took it at all, dont feel any of them was even playing devils advocate
Yep, they said at beginning of show they were going to explain the options in a simple way. Not sure they succeeded in making it simple .
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This pdf has a comparison of the proposals
At the request of the governance review commissioning parties (NZR and New Zealand Rugby Players Association), the independent review panel has reviewed the two proposals being presented to the SGM on 30 May. The independent review panel have considered whether each proposal aligns to the principles and recommendations of the governance report and if one or both proposals reflect the intent of the review.
Panel-commentary-on-the-NZRU-SGM-proposals-15-May-.pdf
I see proposal 2 differs in many ways.
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Lets keep this thread about the governance review
The discussion about possible SR formats is over here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/6616/super-rugby-the-future/232 -
@Duluth said in NZR review:
If the key benefit of proposal 1 is that it is In accord with the review, I’m afraid my suspicion is that the review itself may be the problem.
In UK investors are waking up to the fact that contemporary corporate governance ‘best practice’ is NEGATIVELY correlated with performance.
Independence suffers from the major drawback that there’s nothing like having skin in the game for having genuine empathy with the underlying outcomes.
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@pakman said in NZR review:
If the key benefit of proposal 1 is that it is In accord with the review, I’m afraid my suspicion is that the review itself may be the problem.
The claim from many supporting for Proposal 2 was that it was the same as the Proposal 1 with one small change
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@Duluth said in NZR review:
@pakman said in NZR review:
If the key benefit of proposal 1 is that it is In accord with the review, I’m afraid my suspicion is that the review itself may be the problem.
The claim from many supporting for Proposal 2 was that it was the same as the Proposal 1 with one small change
The people emphasising the difference are the independent review panel.
Frankly, the review should be convincing by itself. It could be too simplistic to accuse the PU of being selfish if they (the owners of the sport) aren't convinced by the proposal.
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@nzzp said in NZR review:
The people emphasising the difference are the independent review panel.
Yes, I made that clear in my post
@nzzp said in NZR review:
Frankly, the review should be convincing by itself. It could be too simplistic to accuse the PU of being selfish if they (the owners of the sport) aren't convinced by the proposal.
Basically agree. That is why the review should've been voted up or down a long time ago
I think the whole process has been about trying to create a deadlock to kill any reform
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@Duluth said in NZR review:
I think the whole process has been about trying to create a deadlock to kill any reform
And here's the thing - the PU need to let go of some elements of their sport in order to survive. I think they still need the ultimate backstop to break it all up if it goes AWOL - some 'independent' organsations self-capture and become about serving themselves, rather than their members.
This feels like a monkey trap for the PU. They have to let go to live, but they may not be able to ...
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Thankfully someone has done a comparison
But this sort of comment doesn't help
The logic behind the requirement is unclear.
Then read the article from the WRU Chair for example
And the MAIN difference seems to be to have 3 board members with PU experience.
Analysis of Proposal Two
The boardBest possible candidates
All positions are open to application by any person. However, there is a requirement for at least three directors to have previously served on provincial union boards. It may be that this is the case for some successful candidates but mandating the requirement is a limiting factor on the potential pool of candidates. The logic behind the requirement is unclear.
This is not consistent with the report
Independence
All members will be independent. However, noting the comments above the panel would view this proposal as not reflecting full independence.
This is partially consistent with the report
Governance background
Again, the requirement for service on provincial union boards potentially limits the search for relevant governance skills. As noted, this service alone is not guaranteed to deliver the required skills.
This is partially consistent with the report
Rugby knowledge
Appointment is with reference to the skills and competencies framework. That makes clear the requirement for relevant rugby knowledge. However, this proposal gives strong weight to knowledge of provincial union governance.
This is partially consistent with the report
Diversity
This proposal suggest no change to the skills and competencies framework in this regard. However, again, the stipulation of three directors with provincial union governance service has the potential to limit the divert of thought around the NZR
board table
This is broadly consistent with the report
Tangata whenua
The skills and competencies framework and the proposed constitutional amendments make the commitment clear. This proposal adds further specificity. However, in A2 it
retains reference that the NZR Board will be able to continue to appoint one of its Board members as an NZR representative on the NZMRB.
This is partially consistent with the report
Pasifika
The skills and competencies makes clear the need for a collective understanding at the board table. This proposal adds further specificity
This is consistent with the report -
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@pakman said in NZR review:
If the key benefit of proposal 1 is that it is In accord with the review, I’m afraid my suspicion is that the review itself may be the problem.
The claim from many supporting for Proposal 2 was that it was the same as the Proposal 1 with one small change
For The BOARD. This comparison has taken ONE difference (PU experience) and used this one difference to make it seem as if proposal 2 is completely and utterly different
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Paul Cully from Stuff talks to SENZ Scotty Stevenson about the upcoming vote and the implications https://open.spotify.com/episode/70Sq3NJj6Cx8DFalPZuUHW?si=95rAmhYPTyOwsIrs_4sgqQ
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Cully said the quiet part out aloud:
We can't really have both a (professional) PU and Super rugby competition in such a small country. It's been coming since 1996.
Jamie Wall outlined the crux of the issue too, here:
The Pilkington Report's finding essentially recommended a loosening of provincial union (PU) grip on NZR governance. Proposal One, which is backed by the RPA, recommends that happening. Unsurprisingly, the PUs are not too keen on that and their Proposal Two comes down to them retaining their three automatic seats on the NZR board. So, it is pretty easy to see Proposal One as being for change and Proposal Two as being for maintaining the status quo.
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@Winger said in NZR review:
Thankfully someone has done a comparison
But this sort of comment doesn't help
The logic behind the requirement is unclear.
Then read the article from the WRU Chair for example
And the MAIN difference seems to be to have 3 board members with PU experience.
Analysis of Proposal Two
The boardBest possible candidates
All positions are open to application by any person. However, there is a requirement for at least three directors to have previously served on provincial union boards. It may be that this is the case for some successful candidates but mandating the requirement is a limiting factor on the potential pool of candidates. The logic behind the requirement is unclear.
This is not consistent with the report
Independence
All members will be independent. However, noting the comments above the panel would view this proposal as not reflecting full independence.
This is partially consistent with the report
Governance background
Again, the requirement for service on provincial union boards potentially limits the search for relevant governance skills. As noted, this service alone is not guaranteed to deliver the required skills.
This is partially consistent with the report
Rugby knowledge
Appointment is with reference to the skills and competencies framework. That makes clear the requirement for relevant rugby knowledge. However, this proposal gives strong weight to knowledge of provincial union governance.
This is partially consistent with the report
Diversity
This proposal suggest no change to the skills and competencies framework in this regard. However, again, the stipulation of three directors with provincial union governance service has the potential to limit the divert of thought around the NZR
board table
This is broadly consistent with the report
Tangata whenua
The skills and competencies framework and the proposed constitutional amendments make the commitment clear. This proposal adds further specificity. However, in A2 it
retains reference that the NZR Board will be able to continue to appoint one of its Board members as an NZR representative on the NZMRB.
This is partially consistent with the report
Pasifika
The skills and competencies makes clear the need for a collective understanding at the board table. This proposal adds further specificity
This is consistent with the reportI know the players (and others) are hacked off at PUs but having a baked in input at Board level is useful and the 'concerns' about the 'impact' on 'independence' is a bit like the Catholic church insisting priests can't be married.
As for limiting the supply of candidates, sounds just like ideological bleating.
Whoever's driving this fairy tale ought to get a grip (on reality).
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@gt12 said in NZR review:
Cully said the quiet part out aloud:
We can't really have both a (professional) PU and Super rugby competition in such a small country. It's been coming since 1996.
Jamie Wall outlined the crux of the issue too, here:
The Pilkington Report's finding essentially recommended a loosening of provincial union (PU) grip on NZR governance. Proposal One, which is backed by the RPA, recommends that happening. Unsurprisingly, the PUs are not too keen on that and their Proposal Two comes down to them retaining their three automatic seats on the NZR board. So, it is pretty easy to see Proposal One as being for change and Proposal Two as being for maintaining the status quo.
Unless the three have special blocking powers that seems an unproven assertion. In fact it's clear that the PUs have gone to considerable trouble to adopt much of the framework of Proposal 1.
I challenge the fairy story tellers to outline one example where the PU proposal would block otherwise agreed on changes.
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@gt12 said in NZR review:
Cully said the quiet part out aloud:
We can't really have both a (professional) PU and Super rugby competition in such a small country. It's been coming since 1996.
Jamie Wall outlined the crux of the issue too, here:
The Pilkington Report's finding essentially recommended a loosening of provincial union (PU) grip on NZR governance. Proposal One, which is backed by the RPA, recommends that happening. Unsurprisingly, the PUs are not too keen on that and their Proposal Two comes down to them retaining their three automatic seats on the NZR board. So, it is pretty easy to see Proposal One as being for change and Proposal Two as being for maintaining the status quo.
It's predictable what will happen. The interesting part will be NZRPA's next step
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Is Northland also in the PU Proposal 2 bloc?
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@Duluth said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
Cully said the quiet part out aloud:
We can't really have both a (professional) PU and Super rugby competition in such a small country. It's been coming since 1996.
Jamie Wall outlined the crux of the issue too, here:
The Pilkington Report's finding essentially recommended a loosening of provincial union (PU) grip on NZR governance. Proposal One, which is backed by the RPA, recommends that happening. Unsurprisingly, the PUs are not too keen on that and their Proposal Two comes down to them retaining their three automatic seats on the NZR board. So, it is pretty easy to see Proposal One as being for change and Proposal Two as being for maintaining the status quo.
It's predictable what will happen. The interesting part will be NZRPA's next step
I'm fascinated to see.
This has been coming.
The Pilkington report laid out that it sees the political games of the PUs fltering into the boardroom where other key stakeholders don't get representation (e.g., Super franchises, players), and basically says that the PUs are misusing funds (redirecting may the term) to focus on high performance rather than community rugby (like, only 21% of their spend vs 59% on high performance).
Edit: BTW, if you haven't read the selected comments from the surveys (e.g., page 130-132 of the appendices), have a look.
Being a long-term president of a struggling club was hard and intense... higher up administrators, who were all promise and no delivery
Too much power by Provincial Unions
NZR is widely criticised for being an old boys club who gives jobs to mates and ex-players
Too much focus on rugby credentials ahead of governance capability
PUs need to stop seeing themselves as 'owners' and start behaving as gardeners of community rugby, ensuring the best conditions to grow and thrive
