Ashes 2023
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@NTA said in Ashes 2023:
@Catogrande said in Ashes 2023:
The two issues that did bite us I think were that our attack was partially dependent upon two guys (Stokes and Moeen) that had not bowled much if at all in test cricket recently and were carrying fitness issues and then not taking the new ball when Lyons was the newish batsman (I refuse to say batter).
Forget all that; your fielding was poor. That's what cost you.
You need a better keeper and some of the boundary fielding ... Yikes...
I go back to my earlier comment about how a year with McCullum should produce better fielding...
Yeah I wonder if Bairstow is for the chop ? ( as a keeper at least )
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@NTA said in Ashes 2023:
@MN5 it he's kept as a #6 who gets the chop?
The top three are a bit journeymanish overall, one of them ? Obviously Root, Brooks and Stokes are safe.
Interesting decision coming up. From what I read his keeping was pretty shit but he had an amazing year with the bat last year as we all know. Freakish form.
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Bazball creates the opportunities to get a result but the old adage always rings true - catches win matches.
England dropped catches at crucial times.
Good test match though and even on a wicket that looked a little benign. The weather certainly helped bring something.
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@NTA said in Ashes 2023:
Australia have to get some runs out of those rated blokes in 3-4 if they want victories. To win that game with a sum total of 35 runs between them.... Jeez...
Warner I've already written off
Yeah but can England keep your numbers 3-5 quiet the whole series ? Not to mention Khawaja ?
No chance.
….and I reckon Warner is due one massive score as a swan song.
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@NTA said in Ashes 2023:
@Catogrande said in Ashes 2023:
The two issues that did bite us I think were that our attack was partially dependent upon two guys (Stokes and Moeen) that had not bowled much if at all in test cricket recently and were carrying fitness issues and then not taking the new ball when Lyons was the newish batsman (I refuse to say batter).
Forget all that; your fielding was poor. That's what cost you.
You need a better keeper and some of the boundary fielding ... Yikes...
I go back to my earlier comment about how a year with McCullum should produce better fielding...
You'd think a former keeper as coach would understand the value of wicketkeeping. Poor keepers/part time keepers are enough of a risk in ODI cricket let alone The Ashes.
Wonderful game of cricket.
The anticipation of Marnus to move early and get the catch of Brooks was huge.
England did pretty well when you consider that I don’t think many of this England team would crack a combined XI
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Great win. Can't quite believe we pulled it off. I've watched the Aussie cricket team on the losing end of these sorts of matches more times than I can count, as the bowling side and the batting side.
Jeez it feels like England lost the unloseable test though. At 8/390 on the afternoon of day 1, how do you lose a four day test?
For all the thrashing about Bazball, it's just poor cricket not to escape with at least a draw from that position. Dropped catches played a part, but their second innings batting was also questionable. Root was seeing it like a watermelon and had a century (and the match) there for the taking. But he charged down wildly to Lyon and got stumped.
So now England probably have to win three of the next four games to win back the urn. They can do it, sure. But you have to ask the question, once the adrenalin wore off - you'd take a boring draw over a close loss, no? Head to Lords 0-0 with something of a moral victory under your belt?
Because while it's fun to play reckless cricket, I'd rather be 0-0 than 1-0 down.
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Outstanding test match.
For all the talk of Bazball, it could also be known as not good enough ball. England, pound for pound, are miles behind Australia when it comes to cricketing prowess in their top teams. Yet, they managed to almost pull off a seemingly unlikely victory.
Ultimately, they couldn't find a way through the number 8 and 9 batsman on a 5th day pitch with a new ball. Yes, it was a dead pitch and the batting conditions were favourable but they still should have been able to. I have no qualms about their batting, but their bowling simply isn't really up to taking 20 wickets.
Broad and Anderson won't be able to play all 5 tests at maximum attack, Robinson needs more miles under the clock to know how to really exploit things (his record is brilliant, but so is Kyle Jamiesons) & playing Ali, who hadn't bowled a test ball in years, showed the depth of spin.
I think Australa will be 2 nil up after 3 with the Ashes retained. Hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see the bowling attack making real inroads.
Fantastic test though, well played both teams. That dogged Australia never say die cricketing spirit took it in the end. An all time classic match.
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@NTA said in Ashes 2023:
@Catogrande said in Ashes 2023:
The two issues that did bite us I think were that our attack was partially dependent upon two guys (Stokes and Moeen) that had not bowled much if at all in test cricket recently and were carrying fitness issues and then not taking the new ball when Lyons was the newish batsman (I refuse to say batter).
Forget all that; your fielding was poor. That's what cost you.
You need a better keeper and some of the boundary fielding ... Yikes...
I go back to my earlier comment about how a year with McCullum should produce better fielding...
I didn’t get to watch the whole game, work got in the way, which at my age is ridiculous but there you go. The comms team, particularly Peitersen but also Punter were praIsing the England fielding come the last day. Maybe they were talking about the ground fielding?
Agree that Bairstow is not a good enough keeper, missed two or three good chances, but as someone else said his recent batting form demands inclusion. Who do you leave out?
Overall our batting is pretty good 3-7, though in this match the aggression was a bit too much at time (refuse to say Bazball too). Perhaps some of the guys have been reading the headlines too much? I do have concerns about our openers though and our attack is not really there either.
And yet, all that being said, we had a very good Aussie team playing catch up for most of the match and in the end really should have won it
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@KiwiMurph said in Ashes 2023:
@NTA said in Ashes 2023:
@Catogrande said in Ashes 2023:
The two issues that did bite us I think were that our attack was partially dependent upon two guys (Stokes and Moeen) that had not bowled much if at all in test cricket recently and were carrying fitness issues and then not taking the new ball when Lyons was the newish batsman (I refuse to say batter).
Forget all that; your fielding was poor. That's what cost you.
You need a better keeper and some of the boundary fielding ... Yikes...
I go back to my earlier comment about how a year with McCullum should produce better fielding...
You'd think a former keeper as coach would understand the value of wicketkeeping. Poor keepers/part time keepers are enough of a risk in ODI cricket let alone The Ashes.
Wonderful game of cricket.
The anticipation of Marnus to move early and get the catch of Brooks was huge.
England did pretty well when you consider that I don’t think many of this England team would crack a combined XI
Root, even then he doesn’t quite walk in as he may have a couple of years ago with the 3-5 they currently have.
An out of form Warner is still better value than either of their openers.
Stokes gets in ahead of Green for his leadership and big match temperament but maybe not in a year or two.
Bairstow doesn’t get past Carey on keeping.
If Anderson and Broad could be guaranteed to not break would either make it ahead of Cummins, Hazelwood or Boland ?
Dickhead persona aside Robinson is a chance.
So yeah, only Root would be a definite, possibly at the expense of Green to expand the batting. Every other Englishman is only a chance of making it at best.
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@MajorRage said in Ashes 2023:
Outstanding test match.
For all the talk of Bazball, it could also be known as not good enough ball. England, pound for pound, are miles behind Australia when it comes to cricketing prowess in their top teams. Yet, they managed to almost pull off a seemingly unlikely victory.
Ultimately, they couldn't find a way through the number 8 and 9 batsman on a 5th day pitch with a new ball. Yes, it was a dead pitch and the batting conditions were favourable but they still should have been able to. I have no qualms about their batting, but their bowling simply isn't really up to taking 20 wickets.
Broad and Anderson won't be able to play all 5 tests at maximum attack, Robinson needs more miles under the clock to know how to really exploit things (his record is brilliant, but so is Kyle Jamiesons) & playing Ali, who hadn't bowled a test ball in years, showed the depth of spin.
I think Australa will be 2 nil up after 3 with the Ashes retained. Hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see the bowling attack making real inroads.
Fantastic test though, well played both teams. That dogged Australia never say die cricketing spirit took it in the end. An all time classic match.
Interesting, I reckon their batting is more of an issue than their bowling. Root is brilliant as the British press keep reminding us but the rest are journeymen or unproven ( still a question mark over Harry Brook for me after only eight tests )
Of course if Broad and Anderson break down you’re more correct than I am to be fair.
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@barbarian said in Ashes 2023:
Great win. Can't quite believe we pulled it off. I've watched the Aussie cricket team on the losing end of these sorts of matches more times than I can count, as the bowling side and the batting side.
Jeez it feels like England lost the unloseable test though. At 8/390 on the afternoon of day 1, how do you lose a four day test?
For all the thrashing about Bazball, it's just poor cricket not to escape with at least a draw…
…Because while it's fun to play reckless cricket, I'd rather be 0-0 than 1-0 down.
For sure but in the past England would have gone meekly looking for a draw and still been in with a good chance of losing but zero chance of winning. We’ve had much previous criticism of not being aggressive enough and rightly so. For now I’m very happy with the overall approach but gnash my teeth about some of the individual actions. Finding a balance will be key, but for now, as an Englishman I’m just enjoying the journey (c: J Mitchell. 2003).
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@barbarian dunno, this post seems very good with the benefit of hindsight
But when they had Aus 8/220 needing 280, and only the bowlers left, at that point you could easily have said they had played it perfect
Undone by a 60 run 9th wicket partnership. I think that says less about approach and more about options available in the attack
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@Catogrande said in Ashes 2023:
@barbarian said in Ashes 2023:
Great win. Can't quite believe we pulled it off. I've watched the Aussie cricket team on the losing end of these sorts of matches more times than I can count, as the bowling side and the batting side.
Jeez it feels like England lost the unloseable test though. At 8/390 on the afternoon of day 1, how do you lose a four day test?
For all the thrashing about Bazball, it's just poor cricket not to escape with at least a draw…
…Because while it's fun to play reckless cricket, I'd rather be 0-0 than 1-0 down.
For sure but in the past England would have gone meekly looking for a draw and still been in with a good chance of losing but zero chance of winning. We’ve had much previous criticism of not being aggressive enough and rightly so. For now I’m very happy with the overall approach but gnash my teeth about some of the individual actions. Finding a balance will be key, but for now, as an Englishman I’m just enjoying the journey (c: J Mitchell. 2003).
I see what you mean, but it's not like England were hopeless before McCullum came along. They haven't lost a home Ashes since 2002.
