Highlanders 2024
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
As a team, we have more to offer an up and coming outside back than a young hooker. A topline outside back stuck behind good players at their franchise, could be playing a lot of rugby for us next year. They will not be competing with All Blacks in Dunedin. Both Nareki and Tavatavanawai are 26, will be 27 at the start of next season. Wingers don't last forever.
Tavatavanawai and Nareki are both the sorts of players who I think could move into the midfield, but I doubt that will be at the Highlanders... that said we might only need them for another year or two. The internal goal is to be competing for the title by 2026, which with our young forwards sounds about right.
Positions 11 - 14 are our biggest problem areas over the next few years. There are very few obvious midfield solutions locally. Whaanga for his fans, seems a few steps behind some of the real quality guys around the country. Our best young winger is on a mormon mission. Rangitutia and Augistine are probably the best outside backs in the age grade teams. Tangitau would be fantastic, as a guy to pick up from elsewhere. He has been at the blues for two years now.
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@SouthernMann josh? i was impressed with him in the NPC last year and hope he kicks on, will be watching
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@Bones Yup, his throwing was horrible. Clearly the worst out of the NZ hookers.
I'm sure he'll get better, but he can start by improving that part of his game.
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@Bones said in Highlanders 2024:
He didn't look any better than any other hooker this year from what I've seen. Was a pile of shit to start the season.
Think that is harsh.
And even still, he is also only 22, playing in his first season of Super Rugby, in a dysfunctional side with locks who were clueless in the lineout.
When Codie Taylor was 22, he had just played a handful of games in his first year of Super Rugby, made the ABs in 2015 at the age of 24. Taukei'aho cracked the ABs at 23, but had year of experience under his belt already. Coles was 25 and had four seasons of Super under his belt.
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@African-Monkey said in Highlanders 2024:
@Bones Yup, his throwing was horrible. Clearly the worst out of the NZ hookers.
I'm sure he'll get better, but he can start by improving that part of his game.
I'm going to die on the hill that the locks were a way bigger issue in the Crusaders lineout. For all his upside, Hannah was consistently bullied. Cahill and Strange were no better.
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@Bones Bell threw 3/3 v MP (Taylor 10/13), Bell threw 2/2 v Blues (Taylor 13/14), Bell threw 4/5 v Brumbies (Taylor 9/11) Funnily enough the uptick in the lineout coincides with Hannah dropping to the bench, and the loose forwards being reshuffled.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann josh? i was impressed with him in the NPC last year and hope he kicks on, will be watching
Josh Whaanga is the best midfield back produced out of the Otago/southland region in my memory. Which says more about our inability to bring theough midfield backs than his quality. The omly midfield backs I can remember coming from Otago/Southland in the professional era are Sio Tomkinson, Josh Timu and Matt Whaanga. Josh probably needs to become a bit more bulky, even though he is probably around 100kg. It is just he is very tall. I think there is enough there to say he will.be a stable Super player. Is he a Rieko, Billy Proctor, ALB or even Brayden Ennor? Probably not. May lack the top end speed..
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@Bones Bell threw 3/3 v MP (Taylor 10/13), Bell threw 2/2 v Blues (Taylor 13/14), Bell threw 4/5 v Brumbies (Taylor 9/11) Funnily enough the uptick in the lineout coincides with Hannah dropping to the bench, and the loose forwards being reshuffled.
Shalfon is a bigger body mass then Hannah and Blackadder at 7 gave the Crusaders more options.
That made the Line out a lot stronger. -
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@Bones Bell threw 3/3 v MP (Taylor 10/13), Bell threw 2/2 v Blues (Taylor 13/14), Bell threw 4/5 v Brumbies (Taylor 9/11) Funnily enough the uptick in the lineout coincides with Hannah dropping to the bench, and the loose forwards being reshuffled.
I'm not sure why you replied to me with that, but since you did...ummm...whoop de doo?
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I'm enjoying the conversation about the second string Crusaders hooker and where he sits in the All Black's pecking order... in the Highlanders thread
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann josh? i was impressed with him in the NPC last year and hope he kicks on, will be watching
Josh Whaanga is the best midfield back produced out of the Otago/southland region in my memory. Which says more about our inability to bring theough midfield backs than his quality. The omly midfield backs I can remember coming from Otago/Southland in the professional era are Sio Tomkinson, Josh Timu and Matt Whaanga. Josh probably needs to become a bit more bulky, even though he is probably around 100kg. It is just he is very tall. I think there is enough there to say he will.be a stable Super player. Is he a Rieko, Billy Proctor, ALB or even Brayden Ennor? Probably not. May lack the top end speed..
Putting off making dinner, I did a bit of a check of players over the years, and plus the guys mentioned the only southern developed midfield backs I can come up with over the professional era are Michael Collins, Matt Faddes, Charlie Hore, Matt Saunders and Jason Kawau. We are certainly really shit at producing midfield backs in the south.
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@SouthernMann That's how the fern rolls 😉
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This post is deleted!
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@African-Monkey said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann That's how the fern rolls 😉
Some tribal protection around George Bell. I reckon we can guess which school one of the posters went to. Haha
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@Bones said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
Bell is an All Black now
Say what?
I mean like he’s already been in and around the AB’s environment. I forget you have to clarify down to a T on this forum haha
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@Landers92 so as much an AB as Paul Cooke really at this stage. Noted.
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@Bones said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 so as much an AB as Paul Cooke really at this stage. Noted.
That’s exactly right mate.
But in and around the squad none the less and that was my point, just the wrong wording.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
I'm enjoying the conversation about the second string Crusaders hooker and where he sits in the All Black's pecking order... in the Highlanders thread
I mean you can take it out of context if you really want. Was more an extension of a conversation on whether the Highlanders might try to sign him for 2026.
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de Groot, Ainsley, Harmon are the only survivors of those who started our last QF in 2022... DLB, Ma'u, Hicks and Fakatava were all on the bench.
Certainly a few random names in there. Denny Solomona and Liam Coombes-Fabling were the two other reserve backs,
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
de Groot, Ainsley, Harmon are the only survivors of those who started our last QF in 2022... DLB, Ma'u, Hicks and Fakatava were all on the bench.
Certainly a few random names in there. Denny Solomona and Liam Coombes-Fabling were the two other reserve backs,
Denny Solomona, wow there’s someone who’s easy to forget. Heck of a player too but as soon on the Landers jersey he got injured. Classic.
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
de Groot, Ainsley, Harmon are the only survivors of those who started our last QF in 2022... DLB, Ma'u, Hicks and Fakatava were all on the bench.
Certainly a few random names in there. Denny Solomona and Liam Coombes-Fabling were the two other reserve backs,
Denny Solomona, wow there’s someone who’s easy to forget. Heck of a player too but as soon on the Landers jersey he got injured. Classic.
And now he is an apprentice plumber in Wigan. What is clear is looking at the 2024 v 2022 side. Our current team is better and has a higher long-term ceiling.
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Paul Dwyer has a yarn to Riki Flutey and Hayden Mciahels. They chatted about managing the dirt trackers each week, Michael's debut, Riki Flutey's role, what the club expects out of club rugby appearances and a bit on the game this weekend. Highlanders playing club rugby this weekend; Wingham, Faleafaga and Thomas Umaga-Jensen. Flutey says TUJ is the fittest he has ever been, and has been back training with the squad for a month. https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/landers-chat/odt-landers-chat-hayden-michaels-and-riki-flutey
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
de Groot, Ainsley, Harmon are the only survivors of those who started our last QF in 2022... DLB, Ma'u, Hicks and Fakatava were all on the bench.
Certainly a few random names in there. Denny Solomona and Liam Coombes-Fabling were the two other reserve backs,
Denny Solomona, wow there’s someone who’s easy to forget. Heck of a player too but as soon on the Landers jersey he got injured. Classic.
And now he is an apprentice plumber in Wigan. What is clear is looking at the 2024 v 2022 side. Our current team is better and has a higher long-term ceiling.
If I recall correctly he was pulled in mid season as injury cover? I recall 1 game off the bench and 1 start and then he did his hamstring.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Paul Dwyer has a yarn to Riki Flutey and Hayden Mciahels. They chatted about managing the dirt trackers each week, Michael's debut, Riki Flutey's role, what the club expects out of club rugby appearances and a bit on the game this weekend. Highlanders playing club rugby this weekend; Wingham, Faleafaga and Thomas Umaga-Jensen. Flutey says TUJ is the fittest he has ever been, and has been back training with the squad for a month. https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/landers-chat/odt-landers-chat-hayden-michaels-and-riki-flutey
That’s awesome news about TUJ. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy. Awesome news coming into the Otago season
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Paul Dwyer has a yarn to Riki Flutey and Hayden Mciahels. They chatted about managing the dirt trackers each week, Michael's debut, Riki Flutey's role, what the club expects out of club rugby appearances and a bit on the game this weekend. Highlanders playing club rugby this weekend; Wingham, Faleafaga and Thomas Umaga-Jensen. Flutey says TUJ is the fittest he has ever been, and has been back training with the squad for a month. https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/landers-chat/odt-landers-chat-hayden-michaels-and-riki-flutey
That’s awesome news about TUJ. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy. Awesome news coming into the Otago season
Going to be an interesting midfield rotation of him, Gilbert, Te Hiwi, Timu? , Whaanga and potentially Jack Leslie. May end up seeing Whaanga play a fair bit on the wing. Which could impact the exposure of some of the young wing options. I'd almost be tempted to see if someone wants to head to Southland.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Paul Dwyer has a yarn to Riki Flutey and Hayden Mciahels. They chatted about managing the dirt trackers each week, Michael's debut, Riki Flutey's role, what the club expects out of club rugby appearances and a bit on the game this weekend. Highlanders playing club rugby this weekend; Wingham, Faleafaga and Thomas Umaga-Jensen. Flutey says TUJ is the fittest he has ever been, and has been back training with the squad for a month. https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/landers-chat/odt-landers-chat-hayden-michaels-and-riki-flutey
That’s awesome news about TUJ. I hope for his sake he can stay healthy. Awesome news coming into the Otago season
Going to be an interesting midfield rotation of him, Gilbert, Te Hiwi, Timu? , Whaanga and potentially Jack Leslie. May end up seeing Whaanga play a fair bit on the wing. Which could impact the exposure of some of the young wing options. I'd almost be tempted to see if someone wants to head to Southland.
but southland has reece for their midfield.....
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Southland will have its best season in nearly a decade if they have a good run with injuries.
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@Landers92 A shame about his injuries. I played rugby with him during our school days, he was 2 years younger than me but still played in the same teams as him and he was the best player I'd seen at schoolboy level and there were a lot of other guys who have gone onto much bigger things who played with and against us too.
He achieved a lot in League and union in Europe, but not gonna lie, I thought he was gonna have a huge career at the top.
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That's that then for 2024.
Overall I'd say an improved season, and they had us genuinely believing we were a chance last night, and for forty minutes they certainly hung in there.
The Good
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The emergence of the young forward pack. Holland, Haig and Withy in particular just got better and better as the season went on. All were very strong last night. Bell, Taylor and Stodart too enjoyed good first seasons, whilst de Groot ended the season very strongly and will be the skipper for the future. Broughton was another one who I thought just got better and better. Ma'u was perhaps slightly disappointing, so we will need to find a good replacement for Jermaine Ainsley. Mitch Dunshea was also very strong, and will be the experienced head
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The Fijian back three. Jim, Jacob and Jona. A joy to finally watch us score some good tries. No way would we have scored the try we scored last night with who we had last year. Slick finishing. Keep them together, with a good reserve option coming in, and we are looking good there. I can see JRK kicking on even further next year.
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Breaking the derby duck. It needed to be done, and we got it done. That game might just give ticket sales a boost at the start of next season.
The Bad
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The mid-season slump. The coaches lost the plot in the middle of the year against the Canes and then in Aussie. They rectified it to some degree, though we never managed to find the competitiveness against the better sides we had early in the season.
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Going the full 80. We failed to score a point in the second half in our last three away games (Blues, Canes & Brumbies). That has to be worked on. I think partially this is because we are a little limited and can't chase games, but probably also speaks to a lack of depth.
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The midfield. Take out Tele'a, and our midfield options are hardly even strong NPC options. Te Hiwi got a good run, and probably showed he is only ever going to be a backup option at best. Gilbert too burnt out, though I actually thought he was really good last night. We simply have to find a classy second five if we want to compete for a title.
The big questions
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The first fives. I think Millar and Faleafaga all in all had good seasons. Faleafaga certainly started the better and looked really good, though his lack of a kicking game saw him come unstuck. Big issue for him, is that he is unlikely to start at 10 in the NPC. His running and playmaking means that at the moment he probably has a higher ceiling, but he has to work on that punt. Millar showed both his strengths and limitation, but I can confidently say at the very least he will be a good backup, who is one of the best goal kickers I have ever seen. Both these two will benefit from the NPC.
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The coaches. Are the coaches getting the best out of the players? I think this will be a question better answered next year. Ultimately, our midfield options are limited, and our forwards are young, but I'd really like to see us get more ball to our outside backs. There were also a few questionable selections (I just don't see it with Hurley...)
Overall
I think you'd grade the 2024 season a B-. A solid pass, but I think we are kidding ourselves if wins over MP 2x, the Drua, the Force, the Waratahs and the Crusaders warrants anything more. We put up a fight in the quarter final, and it feels like the team is finally on the up.
An early goal for next year, without knowing the squad and competition format should be to be competitive in every game. Stop the blowouts, pickup a couple of upsets and win more than we lose. That would be progress.
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The two wingers are class, especially Nareki who should be in the AB conversation with his skills. The fullback though... the Brumbies targeted him with the high ball and he was really found wanting. You could feel the game swinging the Brumbies way with all the balls he lost. A work-on I suppose.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Highlanders 2024:
The two wingers are class, especially Nareki who should be in the AB conversation with his skills. The fullback though... the Brumbies targeted him with the high ball and he was really found wanting. You could feel the game swinging the Brumbies way with all the balls he lost. A work-on I suppose.
In fairness, I think JRK has largely been really good under the high ball this year. It was also Millar who I think was found wanting more often - and part of it was that the Brumbies hung the kick right on top of a stationary player. Clever tactically.
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Thought I’d chuck sports radio on today while driving. They had Jeff Wilson on and he had something really interesting to say.
He said that there is noise that there will be coaching changes/movement ahead. He also said ‘does Jamie Joseph move to head coach?’, something along those lines. But he did finish by saying don’t be surprised to see movement in the coaching department.
Considering he is the one saying that, I think we can expect some news in the near future as there won’t be many more in the know than he is.
It will be very interesting to see what those moves are, are the shot callers ready to move on from Derms as head coach now instead of pushing it out another season knowing that’s their plan anyway? A case of ripping the band aid off now and getting on with their long term plan a year early.
Could be an eventful offseason.
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@Landers92 Joseph to HC, Dermody back to forwards coach, Flutey, Dillon and Donnelly's positions need to be revised. Especially Flutey and Dillon, those two have been stealing a living. Maybe look at replacing defense coach Dillon with Ben Herring who has recently finished up in Japan.
HC: Joseph
Forwards: Dermody
Donnelly to concentrate solely on lineouts.
Backs: Lynn and Ben Smith
Defense: Herring
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@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
Thought I’d chuck sports radio on today while driving. They had Jeff Wilson on and he had something really interesting to say.
He said that there is noise that there will be coaching changes/movement ahead. He also said ‘does Jamie Joseph move to head coach?’, something along those lines. But he did finish by saying don’t be surprised to see movement in the coaching department.
Considering he is the one saying that, I think we can expect some news in the near future as there won’t be many more in the know than he is.
It will be very interesting to see what those moves are, are the shot callers ready to move on from Derms as head coach now instead of pushing it out another season knowing that’s their plan anyway? A case of ripping the band aid off now and getting on with their long term plan a year early.
Could be an eventful offseason.
Jamie will get what Jamie wants. If Jamie wants to be HC, then that would have been signed sealed and delivered a few weeks ago I'd say. It really depends how they think Dermody has done... he was on shaky ground you'd imagine after they went to Aussie.
I think the spotlight is probably more on the assistants... I'd be stunned if Donnelly saw his contract extended, and Dillon could be a curious one to. One thing I am pretty sure of, is that Dermody won't step back to be the assistant - he'd have no authority.
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Mike Proctor might be worth a contract?
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@Tim said in Highlanders 2024:
Mike Proctor might be worth a contract?
This is a rugby thread not a cricket one and besides even if he was good enough it's a bit late as he passed away earlier this year in late February.
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normally im not a huge one for blaming the coaching, i more often than not find effort or basic handling bigger issues and those can be put at the feet of players as much as anything
....but i think far too often over the last few years ive struggled to actually see what we're trying to do or when i could see it it was pretty pedestrian, too often it was just crash at 12 and look for quick ball....but we'd look to crash on inside shoulder leaving the defence to spread wide
when i look at the players making good meters in the midfield they ALWAYS work to get onto the outside shoulder to either draw in the outside defender and make room for their wings....or to threaten that and to try and get the defence to over commit to the fold and fire back the other way...and we're either not trying to do that or putting in the effort to do it
either way, some really basic things need to change
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@SouthernMann said in QF - Brumbies v Highlanders:
@Damo said in QF - Brumbies v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in QF - Brumbies v Highlanders:
@ruggabee said in QF - Brumbies v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann It was the absolute lack of urgency in the final 20 minutes, win a turnover immediately kick the ball away, a complete lack of desire, walking to lineout, taking a full 30 seconds to decide which spot to take a penalty from. Complete absence of ideas on attack, serious lack of looking for out-of-box ways to get the backs involved, which is something that Brown always worked hard at and excelled even with the more limited squads in seasons past. He was innovative, Dermody, Dillon, etc. don't have a creative mindset.
What crap. The last play off game he was in charge of we lost by 29 points to the Blues in 2022. A Blues team miles behind the team that is the 2024 itteration. More limited squads than the kids in the team this year? Celebrate the positives of this year and enjoy the growth. Tony Brown is not coming back
Hang on.
2022 Blues hosted the final.
Yeah I didn't go into the full detail of the season when checking last night. The point was that with Brown, we still lost a quarter-final, and by more points.
Not even comparable.
Tony Brown was not afforded the same resources as Dermody - in both playing roster and specialist assist. coaches.
Brown only had 3 assistants (due to Covid cost-cutting) whereas Dermody has 7 assistants including Joseph and B.Smith.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
Thought I’d chuck sports radio on today while driving. They had Jeff Wilson on and he had something really interesting to say.
He said that there is noise that there will be coaching changes/movement ahead. He also said ‘does Jamie Joseph move to head coach?’, something along those lines. But he did finish by saying don’t be surprised to see movement in the coaching department.
Considering he is the one saying that, I think we can expect some news in the near future as there won’t be many more in the know than he is.
It will be very interesting to see what those moves are, are the shot callers ready to move on from Derms as head coach now instead of pushing it out another season knowing that’s their plan anyway? A case of ripping the band aid off now and getting on with their long term plan a year early.
Could be an eventful offseason.
Jamie will get what Jamie wants. If Jamie wants to be HC, then that would have been signed sealed and delivered a few weeks ago I'd say.
I sure as hell hope Jamie Joseph takes the head coach role on if he has been offered that. Would be the best thing for the franchise moving forward 110%. If Dermody wants to step down to forwards coach that’s fine, if he doesn’t then I’m sure Jamie won’t struggle to find a more than qualified coach to step into the role.
Two things I ask for this offseason is for a midfield signing who can start and Joseph to be HC. Dream result.
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