All Blacks World Cup bolters
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Jeez I hate how Ireland seems to be the benchmark for everything these days...
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Mobility is the current key. That is why EDG was told to shape up at the start of last year.
It’s not mobility on attack, it is about not having lead footed targets in the defensive line that can be exploited.
At present Ireland and France manipulate until there are “slow” defenders right where that want them then go hard at that spot.
We need guys that can close gaps quickly. -
@Crucial Totally agree. But who are our most mobile props? Is Ainsley worth a go? And much as I love BBBR and Sammy Whitelock, what happens if they break down, who are our next cabs off the rank? Paddy T not effective enough.
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@Steve said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Steve Could we see a situation where we have 2 speedsters
For me it’s Stevenson or Jordan at FB with the other on the right wing in the Cory Jane, Ben Smith mould.
Sevu Reece or Telea for 11 I suppose. (I’d rather Ioane but we have no centres).
Clark grinds my gears. I’ve never seen a lad hit so many gaps and then not “take it to the house” . He gets reeled in or falls over his own feet.
The dual pivot thing ruined Mo’unga and Barrett at international level. The lack of clarity done them both a disservice. Barrett in particular has had a precipitous drop off. It ruined our ten and messed up our back 3 for the guts of 4 years.
Will Jordan still hasn’t started at 15 for fuck sake.
I don’t even think its too difficult to solve to be honest. Ireland are kicking everyone’s arse with Mack Hansen James Lowe and Hugo Keenan as the back three. They catch their kicks, they kick well in return and and get plenty of touches each game.
I still wouldn’t take them over any of our options and I would wager if they were on these shores they wouldn’t be in the squad. Well , with Lowe we already have evidence he didn’t make it here.
Couple of things Steve, while seeing your points, I not convinced that Jordan is a test 15, I know if he there I would pepper him with high balls as on eveidence I have seen in tests (thinking Irish last year) he tends to show no interest in getting under them, I know he speed is great at 15 on attacck etc, but think 15 needs to catch ball etc. I like the look os Stevenson at 15, if he can keep up work, but has to show he can play first receiver at times, we can rubbish dual playmaker but you need options each side of breakdowns etc, or it too easy to set up defence for opposition.
And as for Lowe not being picked , he never really looked like an AB before he went away, too many flashes followed by f*** ups, has matured into bloody good player, although he was dropped by Ireland last year or so because he was still going missing on defence at times.
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@Jailbreak7 said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Crucial Totally agree. But who are our most mobile props? Is Ainsley worth a go? And much as I love BBBR and Sammy Whitelock, what happens if they break down, who are our next cabs off the rank? Paddy T not effective enough.
I think the selectors have identified the players most likely to be mobile enough for the current game and fill the other duties. There will always be trade offs in skillsets and strengths.
I would guess that it is easier to take a younger mobile prop and improve their scrum, handling and close defence impact than it is to take a dominant scrummager/close hitter and get them lighter on their feet for phase play.
We aren't there yet butI also don't think that that perfect mix exists among non selected players either. -
not that he'd be a bolter, but when is Lord back?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
not that he'd be a bolter, but when is Lord back?
Due to play some club rugby in the Naki in a few weeks.
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@BerhamporeNinja said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
Also, Have you seen the Irish LHP and hooker, athletically built and are mobile.
Mobile, yes, but Porter is not a tall/big prop compared to who the ABs have used (de Groot, Moody).
As @Crucial says, it is speed off the ground and lateral movement in the defensive line is just as important as scrummaging/ball-carrying. That should automatically exclude Laulala, who only offers one of those.
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How about Owen Franks as a bolter? Well a resurrected bolter…
His test try scoring record might be second to none (or is that first to none), but he’s shown he still has the goods as a defensive prop. As a back up option he’s a very safe pair of hands in a RWC squad.
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@Jailbreak7 said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
Jeez I hate how Ireland seems to be the benchmark for everything these days...
I think it's more because they are squeezing every ounce out of what they have. They don't do dumb shit. They wouldn't have drawn in Twickenham from the position we were in. Secondly , when a player goes down the next cab off the rank seems to seamlessly fit in, particularly in the forwards. They also have 15 players playing in their correct bloody positions.
World Cup year and there are question marks over whether our captain should be in the 23! Toss up for who plays 10 etc.
I can name the starting Irish 15, but I couldn't tell you the NZ backrow or back 3.
Going through their team 1-15 id still favour our boys in fair number of positions, but the sum of the parts is far greater with them.
They seem to have a production line of back rowers and centres.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Steve said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Steve Could we see a situation where we have 2 speedsters
For me it’s Stevenson or Jordan at FB with the other on the right wing in the Cory Jane, Ben Smith mould.
Sevu Reece or Telea for 11 I suppose. (I’d rather Ioane but we have no centres).
Clark grinds my gears. I’ve never seen a lad hit so many gaps and then not “take it to the house” . He gets reeled in or falls over his own feet.
The dual pivot thing ruined Mo’unga and Barrett at international level. The lack of clarity done them both a disservice. Barrett in particular has had a precipitous drop off. It ruined our ten and messed up our back 3 for the guts of 4 years.
Will Jordan still hasn’t started at 15 for fuck sake.
I don’t even think its too difficult to solve to be honest. Ireland are kicking everyone’s arse with Mack Hansen James Lowe and Hugo Keenan as the back three. They catch their kicks, they kick well in return and and get plenty of touches each game.
I still wouldn’t take them over any of our options and I would wager if they were on these shores they wouldn’t be in the squad. Well , with Lowe we already have evidence he didn’t make it here.
Couple of things Steve, while seeing your points, I not convinced that Jordan is a test 15, I know if he there I would pepper him with high balls as on eveidence I have seen in tests (thinking Irish last year) he tends to show no interest in getting under them, I know he speed is great at 15 on attacck etc, but think 15 needs to catch ball etc. I like the look os Stevenson at 15, if he can keep up work, but has to show he can play first receiver at times, we can rubbish dual playmaker but you need options each side of breakdowns etc, or it too easy to set up defence for opposition.
And as for Lowe not being picked , he never really looked like an AB before he went away, too many flashes followed by f*** ups, has matured into bloody good player, although he was dropped by Ireland last year or so because he was still going missing on defence at times.
Yeah fair points, but I've seen enough evidence of BB at 15 and I think it's time for someone else to have a go. It hasn't worked. He has been given a fair shake and I can't have an AB fullback who doesn't chip in with say 5/6 tries a season at a minimum. It didn't work in 2019 with him at the back and the likes of Goodhue and ALB in midfield. We were pedestrian.
The other teams match us physically now. We need game breakers.Jordan (Stevenson) at 15 may focus their minds about kicking poorly as he will run it back. Beaudy is gun shy and either runs sideways across his own 22, does a cross kick or boots it back. It kills me to say it as he I one of my all-time favourite players. But he is contributing nothing. Its almost a sulk. From starting AB 10 in the Lions series to job sharing with Mo'unga. The optics are all wrong.
There is a lot wrong optically with this AB's vintage and NZRU from top down.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
There hasn’t been many bolters suggested in thread. I guess that means people think, outside of maybe Stevenson, there’s not going to be new caps?
I thought last year was the time for more fresh blood. Can't see Fozzie being ambitious now bar injury. Look how long it took to move Jordie.
The treatment of Perofeta, Leicester, Sowakula, RTS, Fakatava and even the like of Sotutu, Vaii or Aumua would leave some people scratching their heads for various reasons, never mind adding more new blood to be capped and scrapped.
There are already players within the squad who haven't been given a decent crack of the whip.
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@Steve said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
Look how long it took to move Jordie.
This is growing more and more as an urban legend.
Was there an expectation that the AB coach would move his best performing fullback on the basis of some internet comment that 'Jordie played 12 at school and for some NPC games, he is our answer'?
Even once Jordie convinced his franchise coach to give him time there he looked shoddy for a game or so then average. Potential was there undoubtedly and I understand the frustration with other players in the position but don't make out that it was clear and obvious neglect that Jordie wasn't the AB 12. It was far from it. His first run there filling in was average and then he clicked. This was in a team under the pump. -
@Steve said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Duluth said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
There hasn’t been many bolters suggested in thread. I guess that means people think, outside of maybe Stevenson, there’s not going to be new caps?
I thought last year was the time for more fresh blood. Can't see Fozzie being ambitious now bar injury. Look how long it took to move Jordie.
The treatment of Perofeta, Leicester, Sowakula, RTS, Fakatava and even the like of Sotutu, Vaii or Aumua would leave some people scratching their heads for various reasons, never mind adding more new blood to be capped and scrapped.
There are already players within the squad who haven't been given a decent crack of the whip.
In relation to this, it ws a big mistake to not have an easy touch against a Samoa or Tonga before the Irish series. The stakes got too high too soon for Fozzie and we were in damage limitation mode by the second game of the season.
It put paid to a lot of bolters chances.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Steve said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
Look how long it took to move Jordie.
This is growing more and more as an urban legend.
Was there an expectation that the AB coach would move his best performing fullback on the basis of some internet comment that 'Jordie played 12 at school and for some NPC games, he is our answer'?
Even once Jordie convinced his franchise coach to give him time there he looked shoddy for a game or so then average. Potential was there undoubtedly and I understand the frustration with other players in the position but don't make out that it was clear and obvious neglect that Jordie wasn't the AB 12. It was far from it. His first run there filling in was average and then he clicked. This was in a team under the pump.Fair enough. Maybe its my own biases but he was always a 12 for me. That where he played at NZ youth level.
HIs boot off the tee rendered him undroppable but I prefer incision from my full back.
I want a full back who makes line breaks and has the opposition back pedalling with a load of fatties offside.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
There hasn’t been many bolters suggested in thread. I guess that means people think, outside of maybe Stevenson, there’s not going to be new caps?
i think i always think you see real bolters when you have a settled squad and so you can afford to think outside the box, either bring in someone "different" or blood someone new. current AB's might not be settled to look too much past our first and second choice players
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@Steve said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Crucial said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
@Steve said in All Blacks World Cup bolters:
Look how long it took to move Jordie.
This is growing more and more as an urban legend.
Was there an expectation that the AB coach would move his best performing fullback on the basis of some internet comment that 'Jordie played 12 at school and for some NPC games, he is our answer'?
Even once Jordie convinced his franchise coach to give him time there he looked shoddy for a game or so then average. Potential was there undoubtedly and I understand the frustration with other players in the position but don't make out that it was clear and obvious neglect that Jordie wasn't the AB 12. It was far from it. His first run there filling in was average and then he clicked. This was in a team under the pump.Fair enough. Maybe its my own biases but he was always a 12 for me. That where he played at NZ youth level.
HIs boot off the tee rendered him undroppable but I prefer incision from my full back.
I want a full back who makes line breaks and has the opposition back pedalling with a load of fatties offside.
Interesting that one Christian Cullen played all youth level rugby too, and didn't go flash when he went back there.
