NZ tour of India
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@Bones it’s amazing the smallest of spikes could make such a noise…
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@ACT-Crusader to be fair I thought I heard something, so was wondering why Mitchell wasn't on his way. I know fuck all about the technology, but would have thought such a small spike could be down to the air compressing or some other sciencing if it's that close to the glove/bat.
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Phillips 🙄
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Phillips didn’t even move his feet. Very poor
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Bracewell trying to hit it too hard and misses it down leg and gets stumped.
That could be the match.
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Sorry guys, my bad.
I checked the score and we were 182/2. You'll see what happened straight away.
1-0 (Finn Allen, 0.2 ov), 2-106 (Henry Nicholls, 14.5 ov), 3-184 (Daryl Mitchell, 25.1 ov), 4-184 (Tom Latham, 25.2 ov), 5-200 (Glenn Phillips, 27.4 ov), 6-230 (Devon Conway, 31.4 ov), 7-269 (Michael Bracewell, 36.1 ov), 8-279 (Lockie Ferguson, 38.5 ov), 9-280 (Jacob Duffy, 39.4 ov), 10-295 (Mitchell Santner, 41.2 ov)
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Can't blame the batsmen for not chasing down that target,To sustain a virtual 8 runs an over rate for 50 overs is very very tough,Thats why not many times targets that big have been chased down.
The bowling lost this game and the first one ODI as well.
Brainless bowling short or wide or both on a ground with short boundaries square and behind the wkt.
We should have bowled fuller and straighter easier to defend with an in out straight lined field better to be driven on the small grounds than hit square which is easier to defend,.
It took too long to recognise that when we did we had some good overs and pulled the run rate back.
Its not like we can not execute, the bowling unit it seems is tactically unaware of areas and how to defend on grounds at times.
The first thing you do when you are about to play on a ground is work out dimensions any odd shape in the ground so you know where the hard areas are to defend then work out a plan,It seems we are not doing that, if we are they are getting it all wrong. -
Young is a guy I've been following in domestic cricket for a while. He's a much better batsman than his international figures so far suggest. His international call-up coincided with a really bad run of form, but in the years prior he was scoring for fun, including a run-a-ball century against a full strength Australian bowling lineup in the World Cup warmups. I'm not sure that opener is his role (and I attribute part of his failures in test cricket so far to us forcing him to try and turn into an opener), but if we never call him up to the national side again on the basis of his performances so far, I'll be very annoyed. I think his potential is far higher than that of Henry Nicholls and he really should have been picked for this series instead.
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Conway is some player huh, continues to hit runs on a consistent basis.
Well the usual trend continues - we continue to smack India in NZ, and they continue to smack us in India. We were missing some rather key players for this series though.
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I just don't really see much talent in Allen. I understand he's young, and has a lot to learn, but he's severely lacking in the ability to pick up length, shot selection (based on length, not temperament) and awareness. Those sorts of things can't really be coached imo.
I feel like he's in the team because he's a bit of a slogger and it came off miraculously and now we think he's some generational talent.
He has clear technical deficiencies which every team in the world is now aware of. I would prefer to see him out of the ODI team while he works on those in domestic cricket, he remains in the T20 side obviously.
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I'm happy to persist with Allen, the way he took apart the Aus new ball attack in the T20 WC was absolutely phenomenal. You just can't coach that sort of stuff. Putting him back to Domestic cricket where he can just resume being a flat track bully won't help his development one bit. NZ is not like Aus where you can work out your deficiencies at the lower levels, we have to find players with the obvious talent and then persist with them until they develop a more rounded game to minimise their weaknesses.
I do agree that Young needs to be given far more opportunities though, and this series was a great chance to give him some game time.
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@No-Quarter said in NZ tour of India:
I'm happy to persist with Allen, the way he took apart the Aus new ball attack in the T20 WC was absolutely phenomenal. You just can't coach that sort of stuff. Putting him back to Domestic cricket where he can just resume being a flat track bully won't help his development one bit. NZ is not like Aus where you can work out your deficiencies at the lower levels, we have to find players with the obvious talent and then persist with them until they develop a more rounded game to minimise their weaknesses.
I do agree that Young needs to be given far more opportunities though, and this series was a great chance to give him some game time.
Except his domestic stats aren't even good... they're bang average.
He doesn't have the record to justify ODI selection at all.
I'd probably open with Phillips and play Young at 4.
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@kiwi_expat said in NZ tour of India:
I just don't really see much talent in Allen. I understand he's young, and has a lot to learn, but he's severely lacking in the ability to pick up length, shot selection (based on length, not temperament) and awareness. Those sorts of things can't really be coached imo.
I feel like he's in the team because he's a bit of a slogger and it came off miraculously and now we think he's some generational talent.
He has clear technical deficiencies which every team in the world is now aware of. I would prefer to see him out of the ODI team while he works on those in domestic cricket, he remains in the T20 side obviously.
Have you watched any domestic cricket over the last few years? He's clearly got talent to burn, he's just struggling to show it on the international stage. Infact, I'd say it's been a little too easy for him (mostly in t20s) at domestic level and he's probably been brought back down to earth with the step up that is required when batting in Aus, India etc against international calibre bowling.
We've seen his flare at the T20 World Cup so we know what he's capable of. A big work on for Allen in my mind is that he needs to show more composure and patience when he's got longer overs to bat, instead of going helter skelter from ball one.
I'm with @No-Quarter, we should persist with Allen, he's the most explosive batsmen we have in this country and offers a point of difference compared to our classier batsmen like Conway, Williamson etc. He's one of the cleanest strikers of the cricket ball I've seen at the Basin, and at the raw age of 23 I think we need to be patient even though he's in a slump atm.
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Allen is being picked to do a job at the top of the order in both ODIs and T20s, same as what Baz was doing at the end of his career. A quickfire 40 or 50 from 20 balls to start the innings puts us ahead of the game and allows players like Conway, Kane and Latham to settle into their work without the pressure of building a run rate. There's nobody else that can do what he can in that role.
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@Canes4life said in NZ tour of India:
@kiwi_expat said in NZ tour of India:
I just don't really see much talent in Allen. I understand he's young, and has a lot to learn, but he's severely lacking in the ability to pick up length, shot selection (based on length, not temperament) and awareness. Those sorts of things can't really be coached imo.
I feel like he's in the team because he's a bit of a slogger and it came off miraculously and now we think he's some generational talent.
He has clear technical deficiencies which every team in the world is now aware of. I would prefer to see him out of the ODI team while he works on those in domestic cricket, he remains in the T20 side obviously.
Have you watched any domestic cricket over the last few years? He's clearly got talent to burn, he's just struggling to show it on the international stage. Infact, I'd say it's been a little too easy for him (mostly in t20s) at domestic level and he's probably been brought back down to earth with the step up that is required when batting in Aus, India etc against international calibre bowling.
We've seen his flare at the T20 World Cup so we know what he's capable of. A big work on for Allen in my mind is that he needs to show more composure and patience when he's got longer overs to bat, instead of going helter skelter from ball one.
I'm with @No-Quarter, we should persist with Allen, he's the most explosive batsmen we have in this country and offers a point of difference compared to our classier batsmen like Conway, Williamson etc. He's one of the cleanest strikers of the cricket ball I've seen at the Basin, and at the raw age of 23 I think we need to be patient even though he's in a slump atm.
The thing is we need a power hitter as an opener moving Phillips to open is not a good idea we need players in the second half of the innings to be able to clear the front leg and find the boundary with Phillips and Bracewell well suited at 6 and 7 to do that in the short form game.
We don't want Conway to do it he bats at a good pace anyway and we need him to bat through deep as he can.
So I see why we are persisting with Allen he stands out as the power hitter who can open.
I think he is now stuck between all out aggression 20/20 style and dailing it back a bit for ODIs.
We need to just work with Allen give him a game plan and hope he gets it.
He has raw hitting power fast hands and is a nice tall unit suits the opening power hitting role.
Moving a lower order hitter to open like Phillips will see him found out with 2 new white balls we get more movement longer.I don't see another in NZ maybe Chad Bowes who could open and do a job,But he is more a Conway style.
If Allen gets the pace for ODI he could be a match winner. -
@No-Quarter said in NZ tour of India:
Allen is being picked to do a job at the top of the order in both ODIs and T20s, same as what Baz was doing at the end of his career. A quickfire 40 or 50 from 20 balls to start the innings puts us ahead of the game and allows players like Conway, Kane and Latham to settle into their work without the pressure of building a run rate. There's nobody else that can do what he can in that role.
This experiment with Allen is the exact same failed thinking as Stead shoe-horning Siefert there because he was a powerful striker.
Seifert averaged 19 for that period and in a late admission had to be dropped just weeks prior to the 2021 T20 World Cup.
Stead did the same thing persisting with Munro as an ODI opener throughout 2019 WC before throwing Nicholls in at the last minute possible.
The common dominator here is that Stead has these naive preconceived fixed ideas & possesses no method or consistency in his selections whatsoever.
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@kiwi_expat said in NZ tour of India:
@No-Quarter said in NZ tour of India:
Allen is being picked to do a job at the top of the order in both ODIs and T20s, same as what Baz was doing at the end of his career. A quickfire 40 or 50 from 20 balls to start the innings puts us ahead of the game and allows players like Conway, Kane and Latham to settle into their work without the pressure of building a run rate. There's nobody else that can do what he can in that role.
This experiment with Allen is the exact same failed thinking as Stead shoe-horning Siefert there because he was a powerful striker.
Seifert averaged 19 for that period and in a late admission had to be dropped just weeks prior to the 2021 T20 World Cup.
Stead did the same thing persisting with Munro as an ODI opener through 2019 WC before throwing Nicholls in at the last minute possible.
The common dominator here is Stead has naive fixed ideas & possesses no method or consistency in his selections whatsoever.
If you understand the dynamics of Cricket teams the Captain has 80% say in selections not the Coach.In Cricket the Captain holds the power.
So it will be the Captains making those decisions on selection not Stead. -
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@nzzp said in NZ tour of India:
@Chris said in NZ tour of India:
So it will be the Captains making those decisions on selection not Stead.
In NZ? I'd agree for Australia, but do you think that cross the Ta$man?
Yes Mate it is, I do some Coaching clinics with Shane (not Bond)who lives in Qld he is the Black caps bowling coach same structure all around the world England and India are the same
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Yeah it's 100% the captain, the coach is just there to bounce ideas off. Hesson and McCullum worked well together in that regard, differing viewpoints so McCullum was always having his ideas challenged.
