NPC 2023
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@Duluth the All Blacks almost never play in the NPC. With more rugby than ever that keeps reducing. I don’t see having a wide base for NZ rugby as nostalgia. Currently all our systems are directing more money and more resources to the elite. That will only work in the short term.
The current competition has revived rugby in the north. Given turkeys don’t vote for Xmas, I can’t support a 9 team competition that would result in all our rugby resources being used to feed other Unions.
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The current competition has revived rugby in the north
But the current competition is performing poorly nationwide. It's gotten worse every year for what, quarter of a century?
I do think we are heading towards an amateur NPC if there are no changes. I think that will be terrible for most of the country and everything will revolve around the 5 SR sides even more than it does now
Resisting reform will not result in saving the competition even at it's current retarded level
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@SouthernMann the bigger unions who flaunt the 1.1m budget will think it’s Xmas picking off the best players in the struggling teams that’s what use to happen before professionalism
If you got relegated in this current enviroment , there will be absolutely no come back ,all your better players with either get picked off or look at the the option of moving to other provinces MLR ,Shutte Shield , Div 2 in Japan or France may as well become a heartland province.
Its hard to believe the Kaitiaki (guardian) NZ Rugby has allowed this to happen.
Get onboard with your community and reload. -
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@Kiwiwomble said in NPC 2023:
@kev but what if that leg is gangrenous and cursing rot in other areas
It’s all coming from the head
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I'd prefer to retain the geographical spread of teams, but the root issue is NZ is too small for two professional rugby comps. It's obvious the answer is to merge them and take the best of both. How many teams should be based on population projections so we have a good spread across the country and don't have to do this again in 20 years.
That will be fiercely resisted though, just look at the posts on here (city dwellers? Really).
I think we are sleep walking to five super centres and no professional (even semi) NPC. That would be crap.
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I'd prefer to retain the geographical spread of teams, but the root issue is NZ is too small for two professional rugby comps. It's obvious the answer is to merge them and take the best of both. How many teams should be based on population projections so we have a good spread across the country and don't have to do this again in 20 years.
That will be fiercely resisted though, just look at the posts on here (city dwellers? Really).
I think we are sleep walking to five super centres and no professional (even semi) NPC. That would be crap.
I can see this as a reasonable middle ground. The history for Northland in Super rugby was more Northland players played for other regional (city) super franchises, no games were played up north, better players moved for their careers, school kids moved and never came back, no new players moved in, and the Union was broke. The connection for the region was lost and our rugby became dire.
So for it to work it has to retain that connection to our region. An utter failure for us with Super rugby.
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I'd prefer to retain the geographical spread of teams, but the root issue is NZ is too small for two professional rugby comps. It's obvious the answer is to merge them and take the best of both. How many teams should be based on population projections so we have a good spread across the country and don't have to do this again in 20 years.
That will be fiercely resisted though, just look at the posts on here (city dwellers? Really).
I think we are sleep walking to five super centres and no professional (even semi) NPC. That would be crap.
generally i agree but i think the unions should be more ambitious to grow, more fans in the door, buying merch and food and drink, more sponsors or the same ones paying more, investing that money back in their clubs, growing participation
i find it weird how resigned everyone seems to be...any other business would be looking to grow
This is also why i kind of think i would just have 10 NPC teams with promotion relegation...TECHNICALLY....if a team can click they might get promoted...so there is the tiny glimmer of hope if some second division teams has a freak group come through school or something....but most of the time the tallant will gravitate to the "bigger" unions but then we have the history etc backing up these teams
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I like the idea of it being a spring tournament. Running through from now until say mid-November.
It would give the players some down time between club footy and the NPC. There needs to be some financial aspect to it for the players, otherwise you'd wave them goodbye. These guys won't play play for free anymore with the options they have elsewhere.
We need to stop the roll through of one competition into another.
If the unions and provincial news outlets don't invest into promoting the competition. Does NZR need to subsidise some marketing/comms staff to be based around the country focusing on provincial footy. A couple in the South Island and five in the NI. Create a streamlined approach to driving up interest.
While the Unions are their own entities, how does NZR manage their longevity, if we maintain 14 teams. What is a realistic amount to remunerate someone for three months work?
What about a yearly schedule of
Super Rugby 20 weeks plus play offs from March
Super Rugby U20s (following feedback from our failed U20s) six week competition during Super season
Internationals during a super rugby break
NPC three weeks after a nationally aligned club season give or take a week.
The big piece of work is around understanding the financial approach of the 14 unions and what they can manage.
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I can see this as a reasonable middle ground.
You do realise this is what I have been suggesting? In this thread and in others for a few years
Ok sorry 😀 the problem I have is that Northland rugby was almost ruined by Super Rugby. If there is to be a regional team that includes Northland ( eg. With North Harbour ) that regional identity and connection needs to be maintained. How could we ensure that?
Southland joins with Otago, Manawatu with Wellington, Taranaki ?, Counties and Waikato, Hawkes Bay and BOP, ….
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@SouthernMann I think something else to consider, why do all games need to be on at different times? I do think scheduling has played its part in people not going along.
Friday night and Saturday night are likely primetime, but more day games will surely get more bums on seats:
1 x Friday games, 7pm k/k
2 x Saturday 2.30pm k/o
2 x 5.00pm k/o
1 x 7.00pm k/o
1 x Sunday 2.30pm k/o -
I can see this as a reasonable middle ground.
You do realise this is what I have been suggesting? In this thread and in others for a few years
Ok sorry 😀 the problem I have is that Northland rugby was almost ruined by Super Rugby. If there is to be a regional team that includes Northland ( eg. With North Harbour ) that regional identity and connection needs to be maintained. How could we ensure that?
Southland joins with Otago, Manawatu with Wellington, Taranaki ?, Counties and Waikato, Hawkes Bay and BOP, ….
there really feels like simple things they could have done to help....alternate jerseys in a second unions colours, ditching the franchise monikers so go with the "Otago Southland Rugby Union" with a logo of the southland "S" inside the Otago "O"....actually try and connect with that history
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Ok sorry 😀 the problem I have is that Northland rugby was almost ruined by Super Rugby. If there is to be a regional team that includes Northland ( eg. With North Harbour ) that regional identity and connection needs to be maintained. How could we ensure that?
Southland joins with Otago, Manawatu with Wellington, Taranaki ?, Counties and Waikato, Hawkes Bay and BOP, ….
North Auckland with a cambridge blue jersey splitting it games between Okara and Albany. North Harbour branding is weak. A consolidated competition would mean more home matches so Whangarei would have a similar number of games but at this new pro level
Other areas? Yes it get complicated.
Basically I think that both competitions are broken and the NPC is almost in terminal decline.
14 teams is too many, 5 teams is too few
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The big piece of work is around understanding the financial approach of the 14 unions and what they can manage.
Only 2 teams financially came through in the black after the 2022 season Northland and Auckland
Northland did a ton of work in and around ,self sustainabilty and player budget and work for life programmeAuckland whilst pushing a few boundaries in and around the Salary cap , has some very strong sponsors that ensure they remain sustainble in this climate
NZ Rugby does audit the accounts of the provincial unions at the the end of the year but its fair to say theres some very creative accounting going on
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Maybe this is not politically correct but is the issue that we are stretching fans and dollars and resources too far with Npc level and development squads for both men and women. There are far more committed players to keep satisfied now. Fans only going to spend so much.
I think we need to reinvest into the grassroots to make it work and that money needs to trickle down from the top tier. -
@Steven-Harris i think the idea is that the unions get very little support from NZR, so if we were taking about a new comp that had the same backing as the current super and NPC combined things would have to be more rosie
currently all the advertising/marketing money and time is split (unevenly) between two different comps
Mrs Womble and I have been together for 18 years, she still has to be reminded which comp is running at which time of year etc...we dont make it easy for the casual fan to get engaged and hand over their money
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Sorry I haven't really engaged in the above arguments and suggestions but what about this North/South concept they mooted last year?
North pool: Northland, Harbour, Auckland, Counties, BOP, Waikato and Taranaki
South Pool: Hawkes Bay, Manawatu, Wellington, Ta$man, Canterbury, Otago, Southland.
Obviously raises the concern of how to fit the Ranfurly Shield in, but I'm sure there'll be some solutions. If it's solely a financial scenario from NZRU then that would cut alot of costs and shorten the season a bit which is obviously their wish.
Finals structures could cross over somehow maybe??
