NPC 2023
-
I don't think this is true, except for places like here (or likely any rugby forum) where it is mainly boomers and older Gen X.
I don't think that supports Super Rugby replicating tribalism? That supports an alternative view of Waikato at NPC level and what you care for and what potentially younger generations care for (which is also a valid argument for a product, of which I also agree with, but it is not tribalism to the extent that NPC had at its peak).
I don't disagree that NPC needs to change (if be kept at all)
-
-
@KiwiMurph for me i think promotion/relegation is important....that tiny glimmer of hope for the lower division team or desperation a team at the bottom of the table gains can be powerful for driving engagement
where as currently fans of teams at the bottom after a few weeks can lose a bit of interest as the season might already be gone...fighting to stay up can cause some upsets
-
Must be affordability issues for the likes of Otago, Wellington, Auckland and Waikato to continue renting their expensive stadiums with average crowds.
-
You've even admitted above that the 14 teams need to be split up again.
Not necessarily the way you may think.
I'm more thinking in an alternative format to that of the Heartland Ch'ship, where eventually teams are split up in a Cup (Meads Cup) and a Plate (Lochore Cup) style format.also weren't you happy when it went to a single division?
No, I wasn't too sure it would work. I had just seen them do that in the FPC for one season (due to covid) and how some Ch'ship teams were totally beaten up by Prem'ship teams. I wondered whether something similar (although not just as severe) would happen in the NPC.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in NPC 2023:
where as currently fans of teams at the bottom after a few weeks can lose a bit of interest as the season might already be gone...fighting to stay up can cause some upsets
That's why I think maybe a Heartland Ch'ship style format - with the bottom 6 teams having silverware to play for - might be a good idea.
-
@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in NPC 2023:
where as currently fans of teams at the bottom after a few weeks can lose a bit of interest as the season might already be gone...fighting to stay up can cause some upsets
That's why I think maybe a Heartland Ch'ship style format - with the bottom 6 teams having silverware to play for - might be a good idea.
i can see it and it might well work
my personal preference is just more simple split into different divisions and the only cross over might be a promotion/relegation game, not playing some teams one year might get people down to watch the next time they do play them, cross over games and splitting mid season just seems a bit complicated for some (like me)
-
I favour implementation of salary caps that include super payments. If we can’t fit a full round of games then a split competition with even distribution of seeds - as before, if we have to.
The real question for Mark Robinson is “what does he mean by fit for purpose?”
- make money as a stand alone competition
- a stepping stone for players to make Super rugby
- a national competition providing a wide base for the ongoing development of players maintaining strong community connections and the place of rugby in NZs culture.
-
My feeling is that the younger you are, the more you align with Super. It's time to recognise that and roll with it.
Yes, there is an entire generation who probably think SR is the only rugby below the ABs. But I also believe there are more casual fans at SR games, many who spend just as much time walking up and down the aisles to annoy the rest of us.
-
-
@KiwiMurph said in NPC 2023:
The 10 team NBL in NZ had been pretty successful in recent seasons hasn't it?
That still isn't a true national competition. Waikato hasn't had an NBL team in nearly a decade (their choice for financial reasons), and neither does BOP yet. That's two big markets who don't feature. NZR risks doing that to some PUs if they exclude them from any future competition.
-
@mariner4life said in NPC 2023:
Why would you attribute that comment to me? It doesn't mention Hawkes Bay or complain about Canterbury, although I do agree with the sentiment.
-
@bayimports said in NPC 2023:
I keep asking because I doubt anyone seriously thinks this format is workable. However if anyone suggests reforms it gets shot down
My preferences would be for something similar to the 1990's 8-10 teams with All Blacks and no Super Rugby
It would be better than the NPC continuing to fade away and 5 SR teams are all we have forever
Yeah I don't think continuing is viable but I deplore NZR running it into the ground, removing investment, having other brands within the same stable make comments that suggest nothing else is on etc
The strengths of the NPC have been its tribal nature which Super Rugby has never really achieved and that is the product they want to invest in. Super Rugby is a better product for sure but perhaps it would be better with some extra NZ players (who then don't have to play for Aus to get selected).
I would argue you could expand the NZ teams without losing much. Its not like the Australian teams haven't devalued it anyway already
Even with my suggestion some teams will still miss out but I suspect someones going to miss out regardless
I don't think this is true, except for places like here (or likely any rugby forum) where it is mainly boomers and older Gen X.
I just sneak in as Gen X and I spend far more more money on Super than I do on NPC (I jersey, one hoodie, two singlets, 2 shorts for Super versus 1 pair of shorts for Waikato).
I couldn't give a toss about Waikato winning, neat if it happens, but I'd trade us getting the spoon for the Chiefs to win.
I'd probably trade us getting the spoon every year if it guaranteed a Chiefs win every three years.
My feeling is that the younger you are, the more you align with Super. It's time to recognise that and roll with it.
I'm not sure this is the same for every province though. My younger cousins regularly go to Magpies games, but they barely go to Super games - for obvious reasons. This again highlights the potential divide between the Super franchise bases and the provincial, um, provinces. I like watching Super rugby obviously as a rugby fan, and I want the Chiefs to win every year, but I'd take the Chiefs getting the spoon every year for the Magpies to win the NPC. Hell, I'd even take the Crusaders winning it for eternity.
What I'm most annoyed about now is that NZR seems to be deliberately devaluing/not supporting the NPC, which allows them to complain about how poorly it's doing - easy to claim a slow death if you're slipping mercury in it each evening. Do we have a conspiracy theory thread? I may need to go post there.
-
@Nepia yep, as a Northland supporter I happily watch Super rugby but with no fixed loyalties. Usually the Crusaders have had more Northland players than the Blues (not many in either case) which has helped. But NPC rugby is where the expletives and frustrations come readily to the surface.
-
@bayimports said in NPC 2023:
I keep asking because I doubt anyone seriously thinks this format is workable. However if anyone suggests reforms it gets shot down
My preferences would be for something similar to the 1990's 8-10 teams with All Blacks and no Super Rugby
It would be better than the NPC continuing to fade away and 5 SR teams are all we have forever
Yeah I don't think continuing is viable but I deplore NZR running it into the ground, removing investment, having other brands within the same stable make comments that suggest nothing else is on etc
The strengths of the NPC have been its tribal nature which Super Rugby has never really achieved and that is the product they want to invest in. Super Rugby is a better product for sure but perhaps it would be better with some extra NZ players (who then don't have to play for Aus to get selected).
I would argue you could expand the NZ teams without losing much. Its not like the Australian teams haven't devalued it anyway already
Even with my suggestion some teams will still miss out but I suspect someones going to miss out regardless
I don't think this is true, except for places like here (or likely any rugby forum) where it is mainly boomers and older Gen X.
I just sneak in as Gen X and I spend far more more money on Super than I do on NPC (I jersey, one hoodie, two singlets, 2 shorts for Super versus 1 pair of shorts for Waikato).
I couldn't give a toss about Waikato winning, neat if it happens, but I'd trade us getting the spoon for the Chiefs to win.
I'd probably trade us getting the spoon every year if it guaranteed a Chiefs win every three years.
My feeling is that the younger you are, the more you align with Super. It's time to recognise that and roll with it.
I'm not sure this is the same for every province though. My younger cousins regularly go to Magpies games, but they barely go to Super games - for obvious reasons. This again highlights the potential divide between the Super franchise bases and the provincial, um, provinces. I like watching Super rugby obviously as a rugby fan, and I want the Chiefs to win every year, but I'd take the Chiefs getting the spoon every year for the Magpies to win the NPC. Hell, I'd even take the Crusaders winning it for eternity.
What I'm most annoyed about now is that NZR seems to be deliberately devaluing/not supporting the NPC, which allows them to complain about how poorly it's doing - easy to claim a slow death if you're slipping mercury in it each evening. Do we have a conspiracy theory thread? I may need to go post there.
Ok boomer.
So how about a competition at NPC that doesn’t happen in the Super centers?
Withdraw Auckland, Waikato, Wellington, Canterbury and Otago and let the regions play for it.
-
Special Magpies game to ‘virtually fill’ Eden Park for HB flood relief
The game on August 26 is set to 'tackle the floods'.
-
@KiwiMurph said in NPC 2023:
The 10 team NBL in NZ had been pretty successful in recent seasons hasn't it?
That still isn't a true national competition. Waikato hasn't had an NBL team in nearly a decade (their choice for financial reasons), and neither does BOP yet. That's two big markets who don't feature. NZR risks doing that to some PUs if they exclude them from any future competition.
and thats why the old NPC with promotion and relegation worked, if you're good enough then you move up...if you're getting hidings then you go down
-
How much appetite would there be from Southland, Northland and Manawatu to have a promotion relegation tournament? They won't be keep their top line players if there is the constant threat of being relegated.
These days, once you go down, you'll never go back up again. With the stadiums of the Heartland sides, probably not in a position to host night fixtures only those three teams could go back up. The other sides in the Heartland division probably wouldn't have the financial capability to go up either.
-
@Kiwiwomble didnt really work for teams coming up though, even when teams in the 2nd div dominated, they would be well short when playing that match.
I dont think that is the answer to the problem.
-
@taniwharugby but isnt that just because they weren't good enough? which is kind of the point, playing in the top division doesnt inherently make teams better , just look at aussie in super rugby or if im honest Otago currently
so we need to decide, do we want EVERYONES teams playing everyone elses... hidings everywhere but everyone is involved and hopefully the over all level will raise....or do we want multiple divisions based roughly on ability with the chance to move around.....not sure we can have both
