T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England
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@Chris-B said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@bayimports I reckon you're spot on about his elbow. I think it's stopping him practicing like a madman as well, so reflected in his results in all formats.
Teams have worked Kane out in the 20/20s,Pace off plug the behind the wicket gaps and square between point and gully and he has no were to hit boundaries unless you drop short.
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@nzzp said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Kruse said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
All this talk about NRR, when it's much more likely that weather will decide who goes through, or rather... who doesn't.
will it though? People who don't go through will have dropped a game they should have won - Australia getting smoked by us; England losing to Ireland. Weather affects on the fringe, but winners will get ahead.
Hell, if we don't beat Ireland, we don't deserve to go through. A washout against AFG wouldn't disguise that.
Yeah - sure, to some extent - in that the top 3 teams are the ones with a chance to go through.
But - from here on in... if any one of the next games is rained out for one of those 3, but not the other 2 - those 2 will go through.
ie: Rain for NZ, Eng, or Aus - knocks them out.
(Unless more than 1 game is rained out, in which case... Aus is gone.) -
@Kruse said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@nzzp said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Kruse said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
All this talk about NRR, when it's much more likely that weather will decide who goes through, or rather... who doesn't.
will it though? People who don't go through will have dropped a game they should have won - Australia getting smoked by us; England losing to Ireland. Weather affects on the fringe, but winners will get ahead.
Hell, if we don't beat Ireland, we don't deserve to go through. A washout against AFG wouldn't disguise that.
Yeah - sure, to some extent - in that the top 3 teams are the ones with a chance to go through.
But - from here on in... if any one of the next games is rained out for one of those 3, but not the other 2 - those 2 will go through.
ie: Rain for NZ, Eng, or Aus - knocks them out.
(Unless more than 1 game is rained out, in which case... Aus is gone.)No rain forecast for Adelaide on Friday of which both Ire v NZ and AUS vs AFG are played
Chance of a shower for Sydney on Saturday clearing in evening ENG vs SLat this stage..all games on this side of the draw that impact this outcome likely to be played
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That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
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@ACT-Crusader said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
That was actually a good partnership 91 runs at a 150 SR (even with Kane sandbagging)
We really needed Neesh or Mitchell to stay in which would have given either another 10-15 balls and a chance to hit a few big shots.
GP also choked up when the wickets started falling and only struck at 100 after KW was dismissed. -
@Crucial said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@ACT-Crusader said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
That was actually a good partnership 91 runs at a 150 SR (even with Kane sandbagging)
We really needed Neesh or Mitchell to stay in which would have given either another 10-15 balls and a chance to hit a few big shots.
GP also choked up when the wickets started falling and only struck at 100 after KW was dismissed.At least we got our bad game over with without any major negative effects. We fielded poorly, the Pom openers had lucky breaks, and too many of our batters failed. Hopefully we can cruise past the Irish and the consolation of the Aussies failing to progress will soften the sting of losing to the English
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Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
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@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
Fair call. While we all wanted him to score faster he did an important job to stabilise the innings. We still could have won through if Neesh or Mitch Jr had been able to help Philips out
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The team has an okay-ish balance, but with Kane playing a too literal anchor role, it then feels like the tail is about a position too long if we have to desperately slog - oops, "power hit" - towards the end of an innings under pressure.
Santner is arguably okay at 7, but Sodhi then arriving at 8 all adds up to being a little bit optimistic.
(Maybe bring in M Bracewell just to completely wind up @canefan?
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@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3. -
@Donsteppa I think we need to bat first with the way the team is balanced, look to consistently put on 170+ and pressure them with Boult early on
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@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I agree with that, but wouldn't last night have been the ideal time time for him to bat at 3 not 4? Early wicket, lots of time available, a need to settle, no need for a bigger hitter? Whereas if the openers had chewed up 8 overs batting slow, you might want to push him down?
I thought his first 15 runs were fine, it was the next 25 that grated.
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@voodoo said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I agree with that, but wouldn't last night have been the ideal time time for him to bat at 3 not 4? Early wicket, lots of time available, a need to settle, no need for a bigger hitter? Whereas if the openers had chewed up 8 overs batting slow, you might want to push him down?
I thought his first 15 runs were fine, it was the next 25 that grated.
No I would have probably pushed Phillips,Mitchell and Nesham ahead of Kane to control the run rate and bring it down so its manageable in the last 5 with a spread field Kane could place the ball for 2 s on the Gabba and a run rate of 8 would have been easy to manage.
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@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@voodoo said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I agree with that, but wouldn't last night have been the ideal time time for him to bat at 3 not 4? Early wicket, lots of time available, a need to settle, no need for a bigger hitter? Whereas if the openers had chewed up 8 overs batting slow, you might want to push him down?
I thought his first 15 runs were fine, it was the next 25 that grated.
No I would have probably pushed Phillips,Mitchell and Nesham ahead of Kane to control the run rate and bring it down so its manageable in the last 5 with a spread field Kane could place the ball for 2 s on the Gabba and a run rate of 8 would have been easy to manage.
Interesting. Seems to me you'd be pushing Kane further and further down and he might not get a bat! Coming in at 6 is pretty foreign for him.
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@voodoo said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@voodoo said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I agree with that, but wouldn't last night have been the ideal time time for him to bat at 3 not 4? Early wicket, lots of time available, a need to settle, no need for a bigger hitter? Whereas if the openers had chewed up 8 overs batting slow, you might want to push him down?
I thought his first 15 runs were fine, it was the next 25 that grated.
No I would have probably pushed Phillips,Mitchell and Nesham ahead of Kane to control the run rate and bring it down so its manageable in the last 5 with a spread field Kane could place the ball for 2 s on the Gabba and a run rate of 8 would have been easy to manage.
Interesting. Seems to me you'd be pushing Kane further and further down and he might not get a bat! Coming in at 6 is pretty foreign for him.
Thats the Plan
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@Crucial said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@ACT-Crusader said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
That was actually a good partnership 91 runs at a 150 SR (even with Kane sandbagging)
We really needed Neesh or Mitchell to stay in which would have given either another 10-15 balls and a chance to hit a few big shots.
GP also choked up when the wickets started falling and only struck at 100 after KW was dismissed.The thing with Neesh and Mitchell was when they came in and we were very much up against it so they were under pressure. I still think we would’ve come up short if they went their standard strike rates for an extra over.
Anyway hopefully a few lessons learned for both bat and ball.
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@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I don't think Kane is nearly as bad as you are making out in T20s, in fact you just quoted a post of mine referring to a pretty recent innings of 85 from 48 balls against the worlds best fast bowling trio, in a final no less. I agree he really needed to up the anti in this match and failed to do so, for whatever reason, but I don't believe he's been "worked out" by other teams and I don't think he's far off hitting form.
180 is a big total to chase, so to get it to 50 from the last 5 is pretty good going, I just don't think we kept our heads at the end. Batting first you'd want a minimum of 50 from the last 5, that's generally how teams operate - get to 120 odd with wickets in hand and then go hard in the last 5 - 6 overs, it's just chasing is that much harder. I'd say both teams would have desperately wanted to bat first.
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@ACT-Crusader said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Crucial said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@ACT-Crusader said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
That was actually a good partnership 91 runs at a 150 SR (even with Kane sandbagging)
We really needed Neesh or Mitchell to stay in which would have given either another 10-15 balls and a chance to hit a few big shots.
GP also choked up when the wickets started falling and only struck at 100 after KW was dismissed.The thing with Neesh and Mitchell was when they came in and we were very much up against it so they were under pressure. I still think we would’ve come up short if they went their standard strike rates for an extra over.
Anyway hopefully a few lessons learned for both bat and ball.
Yeah but by the very nature of T20 as a format shouldn’t they be used to that ?
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England generally seem happier chasing.
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@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I don't think Kane is nearly as bad as you are making out in T20s, in fact you just quoted a post of mine referring to a pretty recent innings of 85 from 48 balls against the worlds best fast bowling trio, in a final no less. I agree he really needed to up the anti in this match and failed to do so, for whatever reason, but I don't believe he's been "worked out" by other teams and I don't think he's far off hitting form.
180 is a big total to chase, so to get it to 50 from the last 5 is pretty good going, I just don't think we kept our heads at the end. Batting first you'd want a minimum of 50 from the last 5, that's generally how teams operate - get to 120 odd with wickets in hand and then go hard in the last 5 - 6 overs, it's just chasing is that much harder. I'd say both teams would have desperately wanted to bat first.
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I don't think Kane is nearly as bad as you are making out in T20s, in fact you just quoted a post of mine referring to a pretty recent innings of 85 from 48 balls against the worlds best fast bowling trio, in a final no less. I agree he really needed to up the anti in this match and failed to do so, for whatever reason, but I don't believe he's been "worked out" by other teams and I don't think he's far off hitting form.
180 is a big total to chase, so to get it to 50 from the last 5 is pretty good going, I just don't think we kept our heads at the end. Batting first you'd want a minimum of 50 from the last 5, that's generally how teams operate - get to 120 odd with wickets in hand and then go hard in the last 5 - 6 overs, it's just chasing is that much harder. I'd say both teams would have desperately wanted to bat first.
That was a while ago Kane has not been as good in 20/20s for awhile and It is putting to much pressure on the middle order in the form he is in.
Yes he has been worked out in 20/20s
I have 2 Australian players in my club and we discuss it they have plans to shut Kane down in the first game and it worked, England did the same thing to him.
It’s not form he is hitting the ball fine,His scoring zones are being shut down with the field settings and taking pace off,takes one of his major strengths away using that pace and angles.
Kane will work it out in the end to reinvent ways to score quicker but it will take time,and NZ haven’t got that time in this tournament.
