T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England
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@MN5 I agree with your statement, I honestly think his elbow might still be a problem as we all have seen hit smash balls even in this format, but it even that is not happening lately. You can hide that still in tests, just not T20. Then there is the decision making on field and recent selections we have all argued with.
In saying all of that it can't be easy to say to your best player though, hey we might need a different captain.
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@Chris-B Sri Lanka shouldn't even be playing after losing to Namibia.. I cant see England losing this at all.
For me it comes down to who out of Aus and Eng thump their opposition by how much
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@bayimports Most likely not, but they beat Ireland (comfortably), who beat England. And pushed Oz a bit - until Stoinis.
England should be as worried about them as we are about Ireland.
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@Crucial said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@bayimports said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Interesting match last night. You can need a bit of luck with T20 and thought England might win this given they had to bring their A game just to stay in the tournament.
What surprised me was not so much our dropped catches or average bowling, but the Captaincy. It was clearly to all that spin was having more of an effect than normal, so did we bowl more... no.
Watching Kane bat was interesting too, He didn't really throw the bat at too many shots. I suspect his elbow is still a problem and he is managing his shot selection, but just working it around doesn't help when you need to chase runs in this format.
I thought our initial bowling and fielding was poor, but restricting them to 180 should have been a chasable target on this pitch. Would have been good to see Mitchell Jr out their earlier to get his sights in.
Ironically the more accurate pace of Mark Wood probably the difference. That late (maybe 16th? over) conceding 3 and a wicket the nail in our coffin
Lets hope they take "the learnings" lol
Combination of bowler to batsman and end of wicket (due to pitch being well off centre) played a big part and was better managed by England.
A centre pitch placement removes that aspect from them.Field settings were wrong for the Gabba, I have coached teams at the Gabba.
Taking the pace off and leaving the the off side open with an in out field to force the batsmen to hit to a packed leg side field with bigger boundaries from one bowling end always works England did that.
That meant we had to fetch the ball to the leg side because we couldn't generate enough pace through the off side due to the Knuckle balls and back of the hand deliveries.
England did this well we didn't use those tactics enough or set our fields to cover the dimensions of the Gabba,
The captaincy by Kane was poor. -
@bayimports I reckon you're spot on about his elbow. I think it's stopping him practicing like a madman as well, so reflected in his results in all formats.
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@Chris-B said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@bayimports I reckon you're spot on about his elbow. I think it's stopping him practicing like a madman as well, so reflected in his results in all formats.
Teams have worked Kane out in the 20/20s,Pace off plug the behind the wicket gaps and square between point and gully and he has no were to hit boundaries unless you drop short.
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@nzzp said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Kruse said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
All this talk about NRR, when it's much more likely that weather will decide who goes through, or rather... who doesn't.
will it though? People who don't go through will have dropped a game they should have won - Australia getting smoked by us; England losing to Ireland. Weather affects on the fringe, but winners will get ahead.
Hell, if we don't beat Ireland, we don't deserve to go through. A washout against AFG wouldn't disguise that.
Yeah - sure, to some extent - in that the top 3 teams are the ones with a chance to go through.
But - from here on in... if any one of the next games is rained out for one of those 3, but not the other 2 - those 2 will go through.
ie: Rain for NZ, Eng, or Aus - knocks them out.
(Unless more than 1 game is rained out, in which case... Aus is gone.) -
@Kruse said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@nzzp said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Kruse said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
All this talk about NRR, when it's much more likely that weather will decide who goes through, or rather... who doesn't.
will it though? People who don't go through will have dropped a game they should have won - Australia getting smoked by us; England losing to Ireland. Weather affects on the fringe, but winners will get ahead.
Hell, if we don't beat Ireland, we don't deserve to go through. A washout against AFG wouldn't disguise that.
Yeah - sure, to some extent - in that the top 3 teams are the ones with a chance to go through.
But - from here on in... if any one of the next games is rained out for one of those 3, but not the other 2 - those 2 will go through.
ie: Rain for NZ, Eng, or Aus - knocks them out.
(Unless more than 1 game is rained out, in which case... Aus is gone.)No rain forecast for Adelaide on Friday of which both Ire v NZ and AUS vs AFG are played
Chance of a shower for Sydney on Saturday clearing in evening ENG vs SLat this stage..all games on this side of the draw that impact this outcome likely to be played
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That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
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@ACT-Crusader said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
That was actually a good partnership 91 runs at a 150 SR (even with Kane sandbagging)
We really needed Neesh or Mitchell to stay in which would have given either another 10-15 balls and a chance to hit a few big shots.
GP also choked up when the wickets started falling and only struck at 100 after KW was dismissed. -
@Crucial said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@ACT-Crusader said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
That was still a pretty decent chase. If Kane even went 40 from 30 and had 10 deliveries to one of our more aggressive batsmen, who knows…
That was actually a good partnership 91 runs at a 150 SR (even with Kane sandbagging)
We really needed Neesh or Mitchell to stay in which would have given either another 10-15 balls and a chance to hit a few big shots.
GP also choked up when the wickets started falling and only struck at 100 after KW was dismissed.At least we got our bad game over with without any major negative effects. We fielded poorly, the Pom openers had lucky breaks, and too many of our batters failed. Hopefully we can cruise past the Irish and the consolation of the Aussies failing to progress will soften the sting of losing to the English
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Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
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@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
Fair call. While we all wanted him to score faster he did an important job to stabilise the innings. We still could have won through if Neesh or Mitch Jr had been able to help Philips out
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The team has an okay-ish balance, but with Kane playing a too literal anchor role, it then feels like the tail is about a position too long if we have to desperately slog - oops, "power hit" - towards the end of an innings under pressure.
Santner is arguably okay at 7, but Sodhi then arriving at 8 all adds up to being a little bit optimistic.
(Maybe bring in M Bracewell just to completely wind up @canefan?
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@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3. -
@Donsteppa I think we need to bat first with the way the team is balanced, look to consistently put on 170+ and pressure them with Boult early on
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@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I agree with that, but wouldn't last night have been the ideal time time for him to bat at 3 not 4? Early wicket, lots of time available, a need to settle, no need for a bigger hitter? Whereas if the openers had chewed up 8 overs batting slow, you might want to push him down?
I thought his first 15 runs were fine, it was the next 25 that grated.
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@voodoo said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I agree with that, but wouldn't last night have been the ideal time time for him to bat at 3 not 4? Early wicket, lots of time available, a need to settle, no need for a bigger hitter? Whereas if the openers had chewed up 8 overs batting slow, you might want to push him down?
I thought his first 15 runs were fine, it was the next 25 that grated.
No I would have probably pushed Phillips,Mitchell and Nesham ahead of Kane to control the run rate and bring it down so its manageable in the last 5 with a spread field Kane could place the ball for 2 s on the Gabba and a run rate of 8 would have been easy to manage.
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@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@voodoo said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@Chris said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
@No-Quarter said in T20 World Cup - Blackcaps vs England:
Kane was outstanding in the last T20 final against the Aussies, he really stood up and gave us a total we could defend. Unfortunately Marsh got going and that was that, but Kane definitely has what it takes on the biggest stage. I agree with others, he seems hampered by something and that must be his elbow, which is probably affecting his form and confidence a bit. Not convinced we should just drop him though, unless we want to go back to 50/6 type scorecards. A big positive with the chase last night was we kept wickets in hand which gave us a good chance at a big total. Neesh, Mitchell and Phillips would have backed themselves at 50 off 30 odd, to come up 20 short was a pretty disappointing finish.
No good keeping wickets in hand if you are falling away from the run rate.
You can have 10 wkts in hand if you stuff up a chase of 9 runs an over by pushing it up by too many dot balls.
We completely stuffed up that run chase and If Kane (who I like as a player and he is a top bloke)
Keeps batting 3 we will be shut down every team knows it.
Kane needs to drop to 4 or down the order compared to the game situation.
I wouldn’t drop Kane but float him in the batting order according to the game situation but not at 3.I agree with that, but wouldn't last night have been the ideal time time for him to bat at 3 not 4? Early wicket, lots of time available, a need to settle, no need for a bigger hitter? Whereas if the openers had chewed up 8 overs batting slow, you might want to push him down?
I thought his first 15 runs were fine, it was the next 25 that grated.
No I would have probably pushed Phillips,Mitchell and Nesham ahead of Kane to control the run rate and bring it down so its manageable in the last 5 with a spread field Kane could place the ball for 2 s on the Gabba and a run rate of 8 would have been easy to manage.
Interesting. Seems to me you'd be pushing Kane further and further down and he might not get a bat! Coming in at 6 is pretty foreign for him.
