Magpies 2023
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia who would you prefer mate. Midfield and loose forwards.
In a RWC year, and with our current coach, I'd prefer we just promote young HB players this year. Our "big name" imports are never really successful. Tiatia was all rocks for us and no diamonds and Grigg overplayed his little guy running hard act. I don't want anymore coaches mate's in the team.
Let's give Cooper Flanders a run at 7.
On the midfield, if lots of players are missing due to RWC I think it's time to move Lowe in from the wing. I came around to Sapsford in the midfield too, where he's better suited to than on the wing.
@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Billsy111 yeah me too
Self quote and reply?
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@Nepia Mate. That's not going to work. Philpott tried mainly local talent just after we got promoted, and look what happened. Now I know there's no relegation, but for the Bay to stay profitable, and have attraction for players to come, you need results. If you don't get them, and no disrespect, you could end up being a Southland and struggling every year. Imports are a necessity.
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia Mate. That's not going to work. Philpott tried mainly local talent just after we got promoted, and look what happened. Now I know there's no relegation, but for the Bay to stay profitable, and have attraction for players to come, you need results. If you don't get them, and no disrespect, you could end up being a Southland and struggling every year. Imports are a necessity.
Mark Ozich introduced a lot of young rookies (Devan Flanders et al) and we didn't do great in his first year (3rd in the Championship division & losing semi-finalists), but Ozich was clearly building a new team and that lead to success only 2 years later. That's how we won the Shield and earned promotion in 2020.
It's a bit of a conundrum, because Syms clearly isn't of the same level as Ozich as a coach.
Imports are only a necessity if they're actually capable of helping us win games, so I'm not against imports per se, if they're actually good. Gibson is an okayish player, but always breaks, so how many games will we get out of him? Tiatia was mostly terrible last year. From other provinces, we usually get rejects or players looking for more game time. Sometimes they turn out to be really good (Ili & Funaki, for example), but Syms' picks last year weren't good at all. I agree with @Nepia, with this year probably going to be a struggle anyway, let's focus on giving some of our better, local/academy players game time, let them learn, so they'll be more prepared and ready in 2024.
It's true you need success to get bums on seats, but a crowd also wants to see our local players on the paddock. Only very good imports that can help us win will get their support. If we lose a lot of games with young local players, crowds will be more patient and remain supportive than if we lose with average imports.
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia Mate. That's not going to work. Philpott tried mainly local talent just after we got promoted, and look what happened. Now I know there's no relegation, but for the Bay to stay profitable, and have attraction for players to come, you need results. If you don't get them, and no disrespect, you could end up being a Southland and struggling every year. Imports are a necessity.
TBF, Ozich used mostly local talent in our most modern successful period. I bet if you line up any of Ozich starting lineups against Philpott's there will be more local raised players.
One year bandages, see Tiatia/Baker, have been proven not to work.
Also, re: Gibson, is injured at the moment, because as far as I can recall he hasn't played for the Canes this year? Actually, is he still with the Canes?
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@Stargazer said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia Gibson was only in the Canes' squad in 2022, then played for Auckland. He's now playing for Suntory Sungoliath in Japan.
Oh, yeah, then I definitely don't want him.
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@Nepia It's getting worse. I just checked his player profile for Tokyo Sungoliath and he hasn't played a single game for them yet, since the season started. They've played 13 rounds. So he's either injured again, or not picked (or a combination of both).
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@Stargazer Philpot was an average at best let's be honest. Here's the problem. You use local talent this year, and then after the world cup, and these top players are available what do you do? Now don't get me wrong I love the local talent, but I don't want to watch the Bay get walked over in the NPC. To me that's a backward step. If we need to import we do it, and attempt to keep our ranking high in New Zealand Rugby
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Stargazer Philpot was an average at best let's be honest. Here's the problem. You use local talent this year, and then after the world cup, and these top players are available what do you do? Now don't get me wrong I love the local talent, but I don't want to watch the Bay get walked over in the NPC. To me that's a backward step. If we need to import we do it, and attempt to keep our ranking high in New Zealand Rugby
You're starting from a baseline of an import is always better when that is not necessarily the case. A young tyro like Flanders may well prove to be better than a frequently broken guy no longer in top class rugby in NZ who never lived up to his own young tyro hype.
And as with the already provided examples our big name imports are generally shit. It's the less heralded imports that generally do the job (the Ili's, Funaki's etc).
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@Billsy111 We'll also get walked over in the NPC if we sign average imports or imports that are always injured. For example, what was the point of signing Sione Tuipulotu, last year? And why Grigg, who left in the middle of the season to go to France?
My guess is that a few players won't return after the RWC. Tuitavuki is an example (hardly got game time for the Magpies). Once Funaki comes back, they can drop Sam Smith and keep local Cooper Flanders. Some players are also aging, think Kaifa & Visinia. Some average players may be kept in the squad this year because of RWC absences but can be dropped once these RWC players return. Think Higgins & Robinson-Bartlett.
Anyway, if they sign imports, they should be signed for one year only.
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@Stargazer I just think imports are needed. Clearly they need to be quality, and yes Cooper Flanders I totally agree with. But in the elite division you simply cannot threaten without players to boost your squad. It's been tried, and doesn't work.
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