Magpies 2023
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2023 Magpies draw:
Date Time Home Away Venue/Town Sat 5 August 5:05pm Magpies North Harbour McLean Park, Napier Fri 11 August 7:05pm Counties Manukau Magpies Navigation Homes Stadium, Pukekohe Wed 16 August 7:05pm Magpies Waikato McLean Park, Napier Sun 20 August 2:05pm Magpies Otago McLean Park, Napier Sat 26 August 2:05pm Auckland Magpies Eden Park, Auckland Fri 1 September 7:05pm Northland Magpies Semenoff Stadium, Whangārei Sat 9 September 4:35pm Magpies Bay of Plenty McLean Park, Napier Fri 15 September 7:05pm Magpies Manawatū McLean Park, Napier Sat 23 September 2:05pm Southland Magpies Rugby Park, Invercargill Sat 30 September 2:05pm Wellington (RS) Magpies Sky Stadium, Wellington 6 - 8 October Quarter-finals 13-14 October Semi-Finals w/end 21 Oct Final -
Will Wellington still have the Shield then?
Assuming they get past the likes of South Canterbury and East Coast they have these on the menu
19 August v Southland
23 August v Ta$man
2 September v Counties Manakau
24 September v North Harbour
9 October v Hawkes BayGames of the season take place on Sept 9 (BoP) and Sept 15 (The 'Poo), thankfully both of them at home at long last
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I've been wondering where we may need fresh blood in the Magpies squad, so I've gone throught the list of 2022:
2022 squad: players confirmed for 2023 are bolded (but there aren't many)
Prop
Joe Apikotoa (TH) - possibly at RWC with Tonga
Mark Braidwood (LH)
Lolani Faleiva (LH)
Joel Hintz (TH)
Jason Long(LH, retired)
Pouri Rakete-Stones (LH & TH)
Namatahi Waa(TH, injured in 2022) - retired (not publicly confirmed?)
Hooker
Jacob Devery (injured in 2022)
Kianu Kereru Symes
Gene Syminton
Tyrone Thompson
Lock
Bryn Evans(retired)
Frank Lochore
Tom Parsons - retired?
Brodie Retallick - likely to be with ABs; then to Kobe. Has he already played his last game in black & white hoops?
Isaia Walker-Leawere
Lock/loosie
Sione Tuipulotu
Tiaki Fabish - still playing in Spain; no idea whether or when he'll be back
Loose forward
Gareth Evans (8, also 7 & 6; injured in 2022) - retired?
Devan Flanders (8/6)
Solomone Funaki (7 & 6) - likely to be at RWC with Tonga
Josh Gimblett (6)
Josh Kaifa (7, also 6 & 8))
Marino Mikaele-Tu'u (8/6)
Sam Smith (7)
Will Tremain (7) - leaving? retired?
Halfback
Ere Enari - off-contract, likely to be at RWC with Samoa
Folau Fakatava - possibly be with ABs
Connor McLeod
Brad Weber - possibly with ABs, if not, will he be available (if he goes overseas)?
First five-eighth
Harry Godfrey
Caleb Makene
Lincoln McClutchie
Midfielder
Nick Grigg - left for France on injury replacement contract; now back in NZ for family reasons; will he be back?
Kienan Higgins
Stacey Ili (has been used at 10) - likely to be at RWC with Samoa
Ollie Sapsford (wing, also midfield)
Danny Toala (12, 15, has been used at 10) - likely to be at RWC with Samoa
Outside back
Neria Fomai (13) - likely to be at RWC with Samoa
Jonah Lowe (wing, also 13)
Dennon Robinson-Bartlett
Anzelo Tuitavuki (wing) - likely to be at RWC with Tonga
Lolagi Visinia
Chase Tiatia
Apprentices
Lewis Bush (TH)
Tupou Ma'afu-Afungia (8)
Paoraian Manuel-Harman (wing)
Zac Simpson (midfielder)
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We've lost two LH props to retirement and will possibly lose one TH to the RWC. Personally, I think Lewis Bush is too small for NPC. Who else will come up through club rugby? Or external signings? If Cracker Braidwood doesn't crack the squad, we'll be missing 3 THs. I wonder how Jayden Walker is going? Can Tim Farrell be convinced to wear black & white again? Is Konradd Newland ready? He still seems so green; is this his first year out of school?
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No problems whatsoever at hooker, if they stay healthy.
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Lock is another problem with one certain and one possible retirement, and one at the RWC. If Fabish returns, he may be used at lock. Tuipulotu is either injured or can't crack the MP squad. His one and only outing for the Magpies, last year, wasn't a success. I assume Hunter Morrison will make the squad. He was good for the Hurricanes U20s, is in our Academy squad. Looks proming, but is very green. Same with Matt Monaghan. Tom Allen is probably too young.
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Loosies: if G. Evans has retired, then Tupou Ma'afu-Afungia will likely get his spot. He's going well in the MLR and gets lots of game time. I'm not a fan of Sam Smith, but with Funaki most likely at the RWC, he may be in the squad again. It will be interesting to see how Liam Udy-Johns goes in club rugby. He only played two games for Southland in 2021; was he injured in 2022? Definitely one to watch. I also wonder whether they'll sign Cooper Flanders for Tremain's spot? He's the same age as Devan when he first made the squad. He and Tino Savea will definitely be on the fringes.
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Halfback, another problem area. We may only have McLeod. They can maybe replace one of our test players with a club rugby player, but not more. By the way, Isaac Bracewell has returned to Wellington, so it won't be him. Not keen on Sheridan Rangihuna, who doesn't even play halfback for Tech, does he? There may not be much choice though. Too bad Brad Campbell is based in Dunedin.
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First five: all available if healthy.
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Midfielders: a big problem. Two, most likely three spots to fill. Ollie Sapsford will probably get the 12 jersey, but Kienan Higgins hasn't convinced. I hope Bailyn Sullivan signs with the Magpies, but we need more than one player. They'll be looking at the apprentice midfielder Zach Simpson, but maybe Bethel Malasi is another one from the Academy/Hurricanes U20 who may get a spot. Meni Manase may be too young?
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Wingers: One, possibly two players at the RWC. Robinson-Bartlett didn't even play, last year and will have to fight for a spot (club form will be important). Lowe is the only experienced winger that will be available, if he can stay in one piece. They'll be looking at Paoraian Manuel-Harman and, also for this spot, Bethel Malasia. Maybe Ezra Malo.
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Fullback: I don't really want Tiatia back, but - I can't believe I'm writing this - we may actually need him. Not sure what's up with Visinia, who didn't get much game time last year and also hasn't been spotted at MP, despite being in their squad. I'd beg Zarn Sullivan on my bare knees to come home. That also gives more room to use Makene on the wing.
All in all, I'm a bit worried about this year's NPC, considering the holes our test players are leaving in the squad and the retirement of some other experienced players. We'll either have a lot of talented, but very green rookies; inexperienced (at this level) club players, or rejects from elsewhere. Unless they've done some strong recruiting (either poaching from other provinces, or signing players from overseas, maybe Fijian Drua).
I think trying to bring the Sullivans home should be a priority. Who else is there? Any returnees from overseas? Thinking of Tiaan Falcon, or players who are close to retirement, like Richard Buckman. What are Mark Abbott or Michael Allardice up to after the Top League One season? For the future we have a lot of talent coming through; it's just for this year that we might need some of these older guys.
Our head coach coming back late from the MLR may be problematic in this respect. I doubt the recruiting can wait until his return, so who is making signing decisions in his place?
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@Stargazer I upvoted this before I read these words:
@Stargazer said in Magpies 2023:
I don't really want Tiatia back, but - I can't believe I'm writing this - we may actually need him.
You're now dead to me ...
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia My understanding is Blake Gibson will be with the Magpies this season. Hopefully the Sullivan boys.
You too are now dead to me. Yep, I'm shooting the messenger.
If the Sullivans come back I'll holster the pistol.
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia who would you prefer mate. Midfield and loose forwards.
In a RWC year, and with our current coach, I'd prefer we just promote young HB players this year. Our "big name" imports are never really successful. Tiatia was all rocks for us and no diamonds and Grigg overplayed his little guy running hard act. I don't want anymore coaches mate's in the team.
Let's give Cooper Flanders a run at 7.
On the midfield, if lots of players are missing due to RWC I think it's time to move Lowe in from the wing. I came around to Sapsford in the midfield too, where he's better suited to than on the wing.
@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Billsy111 yeah me too
Self quote and reply?
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@Nepia Mate. That's not going to work. Philpott tried mainly local talent just after we got promoted, and look what happened. Now I know there's no relegation, but for the Bay to stay profitable, and have attraction for players to come, you need results. If you don't get them, and no disrespect, you could end up being a Southland and struggling every year. Imports are a necessity.
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia Mate. That's not going to work. Philpott tried mainly local talent just after we got promoted, and look what happened. Now I know there's no relegation, but for the Bay to stay profitable, and have attraction for players to come, you need results. If you don't get them, and no disrespect, you could end up being a Southland and struggling every year. Imports are a necessity.
Mark Ozich introduced a lot of young rookies (Devan Flanders et al) and we didn't do great in his first year (3rd in the Championship division & losing semi-finalists), but Ozich was clearly building a new team and that lead to success only 2 years later. That's how we won the Shield and earned promotion in 2020.
It's a bit of a conundrum, because Syms clearly isn't of the same level as Ozich as a coach.
Imports are only a necessity if they're actually capable of helping us win games, so I'm not against imports per se, if they're actually good. Gibson is an okayish player, but always breaks, so how many games will we get out of him? Tiatia was mostly terrible last year. From other provinces, we usually get rejects or players looking for more game time. Sometimes they turn out to be really good (Ili & Funaki, for example), but Syms' picks last year weren't good at all. I agree with @Nepia, with this year probably going to be a struggle anyway, let's focus on giving some of our better, local/academy players game time, let them learn, so they'll be more prepared and ready in 2024.
It's true you need success to get bums on seats, but a crowd also wants to see our local players on the paddock. Only very good imports that can help us win will get their support. If we lose a lot of games with young local players, crowds will be more patient and remain supportive than if we lose with average imports.
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@Billsy111 said in Magpies 2023:
@Nepia Mate. That's not going to work. Philpott tried mainly local talent just after we got promoted, and look what happened. Now I know there's no relegation, but for the Bay to stay profitable, and have attraction for players to come, you need results. If you don't get them, and no disrespect, you could end up being a Southland and struggling every year. Imports are a necessity.
TBF, Ozich used mostly local talent in our most modern successful period. I bet if you line up any of Ozich starting lineups against Philpott's there will be more local raised players.
One year bandages, see Tiatia/Baker, have been proven not to work.
Also, re: Gibson, is injured at the moment, because as far as I can recall he hasn't played for the Canes this year? Actually, is he still with the Canes?
