Bledisloe 2
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@Stargazer said in Bledisloe 2:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Dan54 said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Crucial He's had a few games without scoring a scintillating try.
Aside from Boks 1, I think he's been fine under the high ball. Since Boks 1 it seems to me that there's been a distinct shift in Will's kick chase game. He's no longer mainly trying to catch offensive kicks, but is copying the Bok tactic and going up one handed to disrupt and knock down.
Yep Chris unfortunately at times (see 3rd Irish test) he scores scintillating try, but that has been all he has done . Game I mentioned I came away thinking he did nothing for about 79minute 40 second, and had an amazing 20 seconds, he is capable of so much more and has been slowly doing more in games as season gone on.
On the other hand - I've re-watched this game and Will was even better and more impactful than I thought. Has a significant role in all the tries.
First try - it's Will and SBarrett who tackle Ikitau into touch to win the initial field position - he doesn't lose contact in the tackle as I earlier recalled. Then Havili and Will join the maul to help provide the impetus to get it over the line.
Second try begins with a pin point cross kick to Will who catches it on the sideline above his head. He kicks the ball down the tramlines - chases hard and nails Kellaway. Gets to his feet and with Sotutu and someone else counter-rucks to win the ball which is spun for Sami to score.
Third try, again it's Will who kicks the ball downfield. Chases - while Koroibete fumbles, recovers and then Will tackles him and we win a penalty when MK plays the ball on the ground. Moúnga's try results from the field position.
4th try he scores himself.
5th try he makes for Jordie.
He takes both high balls kicked to him - including one where he has his feet taken out when he's in the air (the tackler is ruled as being pushed). The other he gets tackled and pinged for holding on.
He wins a tackle penalty. He makes a good clearing kick from behind the goal line. He does quite a bit of other useful stuff.
He falls off the tackle of Samu. He misses what would effectively have been an ankle tap of Koroibete (who then bounces off Sotutu and fan favourite Sami T.). In the early 30 minutes he tackles Samu one off the ruck when he's surging for the line and fells him but doesn't hold him, so I guess that counts as a miss, but it's really an effective effort.
In about the 78th minute he disengages from a joint tackle to retain his feet just before the guy goes to ground - if they've marked that as a missed tackle it's ridiculous, but if they haven't, I don't know where either of the other two supposed misses occur - one might be Quinn Tupaea's.
Aside from the Samu miss (and the penalty if you're being picky - but, you could lay some of that with the cleaners) he's had an excellent and busy game. Yet some on the fern have assessed him as poor and a spectator and calling for Reece.
It's bollocks!!!
.
Compare Jordans game to Clarkes, they are calling for the wrong wing to be dropped.
Talk about uninterested on defence its all from the other wing.I think both have struggled a bit with the defensive system at times, but that probably goes for all of the backs this year. Maybe not Jordie.
But, Will had no problems with the system this week - he just fell off a tackle due to the might and power of the former Mako, Pete Samu.
Caleb had a few issues with the system and with linking on attack, so you're right about where the ruler should have been run.
Overall, though - I'm happy to persist with these two wings. Caleb offers the power option that we're otherwise a bit lacking in if Sevu plays.
Yeah, I'm not convinced Clarke and Reece are competing for the same position. Clarke is our only effective power winger in the squad and brings an important point of difference to our attack. That's why people preferred Reece to replace Jordan.
I'm with you on Jordan though, in my earlier post I said he's the closest thing we've had to Cullen. That post had some obvious hyperbole but that statement wasn't far off, he is absolutely electric when he gets going.
If only he was effective.
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@No-Quarter He's shown glimpses of the power winger he could be, but generally he has IMO been ineffective. He just hasn't regained any of the form from before his 7s stint. Jordan has also been out of form, but all in all has shown more. I think they should have given Reece a run on the left wing.
Apart from that, I'm happy for them to stick with him though, because he's great potential.
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@KiwiMurph Resulting in how many tries and how many tries has he prevented and let in?
Edit: don't get me wrong, I like the player. My only comment was on the "effective" bit in that earlier post.
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@Stargazer said in Bledisloe 2:
@KiwiMurph Resulting in how many tries and how many tries has he prevented and let in?
Edit: don't get me wrong, I like the player. My only comment was on the "effective" bit in that earlier post.
Yeah i hear you.
My point is that he is an effective power winger in regards to his ball running.
Totally agreed there are major issues with his linking play once in the open field and his defensive alignment.
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@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 2:
@Stargazer said in Bledisloe 2:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Dan54 said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Crucial He's had a few games without scoring a scintillating try.
Aside from Boks 1, I think he's been fine under the high ball. Since Boks 1 it seems to me that there's been a distinct shift in Will's kick chase game. He's no longer mainly trying to catch offensive kicks, but is copying the Bok tactic and going up one handed to disrupt and knock down.
Yep Chris unfortunately at times (see 3rd Irish test) he scores scintillating try, but that has been all he has done . Game I mentioned I came away thinking he did nothing for about 79minute 40 second, and had an amazing 20 seconds, he is capable of so much more and has been slowly doing more in games as season gone on.
On the other hand - I've re-watched this game and Will was even better and more impactful than I thought. Has a significant role in all the tries.
First try - it's Will and SBarrett who tackle Ikitau into touch to win the initial field position - he doesn't lose contact in the tackle as I earlier recalled. Then Havili and Will join the maul to help provide the impetus to get it over the line.
Second try begins with a pin point cross kick to Will who catches it on the sideline above his head. He kicks the ball down the tramlines - chases hard and nails Kellaway. Gets to his feet and with Sotutu and someone else counter-rucks to win the ball which is spun for Sami to score.
Third try, again it's Will who kicks the ball downfield. Chases - while Koroibete fumbles, recovers and then Will tackles him and we win a penalty when MK plays the ball on the ground. Moúnga's try results from the field position.
4th try he scores himself.
5th try he makes for Jordie.
He takes both high balls kicked to him - including one where he has his feet taken out when he's in the air (the tackler is ruled as being pushed). The other he gets tackled and pinged for holding on.
He wins a tackle penalty. He makes a good clearing kick from behind the goal line. He does quite a bit of other useful stuff.
He falls off the tackle of Samu. He misses what would effectively have been an ankle tap of Koroibete (who then bounces off Sotutu and fan favourite Sami T.). In the early 30 minutes he tackles Samu one off the ruck when he's surging for the line and fells him but doesn't hold him, so I guess that counts as a miss, but it's really an effective effort.
In about the 78th minute he disengages from a joint tackle to retain his feet just before the guy goes to ground - if they've marked that as a missed tackle it's ridiculous, but if they haven't, I don't know where either of the other two supposed misses occur - one might be Quinn Tupaea's.
Aside from the Samu miss (and the penalty if you're being picky - but, you could lay some of that with the cleaners) he's had an excellent and busy game. Yet some on the fern have assessed him as poor and a spectator and calling for Reece.
It's bollocks!!!
.
Compare Jordans game to Clarkes, they are calling for the wrong wing to be dropped.
Talk about uninterested on defence its all from the other wing.I think both have struggled a bit with the defensive system at times, but that probably goes for all of the backs this year. Maybe not Jordie.
But, Will had no problems with the system this week - he just fell off a tackle due to the might and power of the former Mako, Pete Samu.
Caleb had a few issues with the system and with linking on attack, so you're right about where the ruler should have been run.
Overall, though - I'm happy to persist with these two wings. Caleb offers the power option that we're otherwise a bit lacking in if Sevu plays.
Yeah, I'm not convinced Clarke and Reece are competing for the same position. Clarke is our only effective power winger in the squad and brings an important point of difference to our attack. That's why people preferred Reece to replace Jordan.
I'm with you on Jordan though, in my earlier post I said he's the closest thing we've had to Cullen. That post had some obvious hyperbole but that statement wasn't far off, he is absolutely electric when he gets going.
If only he was effective.
Great. Problem is he doesn't have the brains or awareness to keep the ball going after his breaks, so those stats mean nothing. Great break, ends in turnover cos he can't get the ball to someone ether
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@Bones said in Bledisloe 2:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 2:
I'm actually amazed you could watch him and not think he's effective in the power winger role.
Does he break more tackles than most?
no he breaks tacklers more than he breaks tackles
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@Machpants said in Bledisloe 2:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 2:
@Stargazer said in Bledisloe 2:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Dan54 said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Crucial He's had a few games without scoring a scintillating try.
Aside from Boks 1, I think he's been fine under the high ball. Since Boks 1 it seems to me that there's been a distinct shift in Will's kick chase game. He's no longer mainly trying to catch offensive kicks, but is copying the Bok tactic and going up one handed to disrupt and knock down.
Yep Chris unfortunately at times (see 3rd Irish test) he scores scintillating try, but that has been all he has done . Game I mentioned I came away thinking he did nothing for about 79minute 40 second, and had an amazing 20 seconds, he is capable of so much more and has been slowly doing more in games as season gone on.
On the other hand - I've re-watched this game and Will was even better and more impactful than I thought. Has a significant role in all the tries.
First try - it's Will and SBarrett who tackle Ikitau into touch to win the initial field position - he doesn't lose contact in the tackle as I earlier recalled. Then Havili and Will join the maul to help provide the impetus to get it over the line.
Second try begins with a pin point cross kick to Will who catches it on the sideline above his head. He kicks the ball down the tramlines - chases hard and nails Kellaway. Gets to his feet and with Sotutu and someone else counter-rucks to win the ball which is spun for Sami to score.
Third try, again it's Will who kicks the ball downfield. Chases - while Koroibete fumbles, recovers and then Will tackles him and we win a penalty when MK plays the ball on the ground. Moúnga's try results from the field position.
4th try he scores himself.
5th try he makes for Jordie.
He takes both high balls kicked to him - including one where he has his feet taken out when he's in the air (the tackler is ruled as being pushed). The other he gets tackled and pinged for holding on.
He wins a tackle penalty. He makes a good clearing kick from behind the goal line. He does quite a bit of other useful stuff.
He falls off the tackle of Samu. He misses what would effectively have been an ankle tap of Koroibete (who then bounces off Sotutu and fan favourite Sami T.). In the early 30 minutes he tackles Samu one off the ruck when he's surging for the line and fells him but doesn't hold him, so I guess that counts as a miss, but it's really an effective effort.
In about the 78th minute he disengages from a joint tackle to retain his feet just before the guy goes to ground - if they've marked that as a missed tackle it's ridiculous, but if they haven't, I don't know where either of the other two supposed misses occur - one might be Quinn Tupaea's.
Aside from the Samu miss (and the penalty if you're being picky - but, you could lay some of that with the cleaners) he's had an excellent and busy game. Yet some on the fern have assessed him as poor and a spectator and calling for Reece.
It's bollocks!!!
.
Compare Jordans game to Clarkes, they are calling for the wrong wing to be dropped.
Talk about uninterested on defence its all from the other wing.I think both have struggled a bit with the defensive system at times, but that probably goes for all of the backs this year. Maybe not Jordie.
But, Will had no problems with the system this week - he just fell off a tackle due to the might and power of the former Mako, Pete Samu.
Caleb had a few issues with the system and with linking on attack, so you're right about where the ruler should have been run.
Overall, though - I'm happy to persist with these two wings. Caleb offers the power option that we're otherwise a bit lacking in if Sevu plays.
Yeah, I'm not convinced Clarke and Reece are competing for the same position. Clarke is our only effective power winger in the squad and brings an important point of difference to our attack. That's why people preferred Reece to replace Jordan.
I'm with you on Jordan though, in my earlier post I said he's the closest thing we've had to Cullen. That post had some obvious hyperbole but that statement wasn't far off, he is absolutely electric when he gets going.
If only he was effective.
Great. Problem is he doesn't have the brains or awareness to keep the ball going after his breaks, so those stats mean nothing. Great break, ends in turnover cos he can't get the ball to someone ether
Nonu was similar early on. Made great breaks but didn't always link up with support, made low percentage pass attempts and failed to go to ground to give his forwards a target. He turned out okay
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@KiwiMurph I feel that its only a small thing that Clarke needs to work on as well, but the kid is quality.
As people have pointed out, the breaks are getting made, he just needs to link up, but I'd much rather have someone make the linebreaks, than someone who doesn't even get us into the position in the first place.
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@African-Monkey said in Bledisloe 2:
@KiwiMurph I feel that its only a small thing that Clarke needs to work on as well, but the kid is quality.
As people have pointed out, the breaks are getting made, he just needs to link up, but I'd much rather have someone make the linebreaks, than someone who doesn't even get us into the position in the first place.
Combined with the bad reads on defence though... I'm not convinced we wouldn't have been better served with Caleb Ralph on the wing on the weekend.
But you're right he has a high ceiling. And both areas could simply be an anxiousness in the situation, which will only get better with more experience and more time in the jersey.
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@Frye I'm still under the impression that he's been told to shoot out of the line. I don't like myself and I think it's a high risk tactic, and Clarke isn't suited to it.
I'd feel more safer about it if it were someone like Reece doing it, but not Clarke as he's too slow to execute it and turn and chase if it goes wrong, which it did twice the other night.
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@canefan said in Bledisloe 2:
@Machpants said in Bledisloe 2:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 2:
@Stargazer said in Bledisloe 2:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Dan54 said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Crucial He's had a few games without scoring a scintillating try.
Aside from Boks 1, I think he's been fine under the high ball. Since Boks 1 it seems to me that there's been a distinct shift in Will's kick chase game. He's no longer mainly trying to catch offensive kicks, but is copying the Bok tactic and going up one handed to disrupt and knock down.
Yep Chris unfortunately at times (see 3rd Irish test) he scores scintillating try, but that has been all he has done . Game I mentioned I came away thinking he did nothing for about 79minute 40 second, and had an amazing 20 seconds, he is capable of so much more and has been slowly doing more in games as season gone on.
On the other hand - I've re-watched this game and Will was even better and more impactful than I thought. Has a significant role in all the tries.
First try - it's Will and SBarrett who tackle Ikitau into touch to win the initial field position - he doesn't lose contact in the tackle as I earlier recalled. Then Havili and Will join the maul to help provide the impetus to get it over the line.
Second try begins with a pin point cross kick to Will who catches it on the sideline above his head. He kicks the ball down the tramlines - chases hard and nails Kellaway. Gets to his feet and with Sotutu and someone else counter-rucks to win the ball which is spun for Sami to score.
Third try, again it's Will who kicks the ball downfield. Chases - while Koroibete fumbles, recovers and then Will tackles him and we win a penalty when MK plays the ball on the ground. Moúnga's try results from the field position.
4th try he scores himself.
5th try he makes for Jordie.
He takes both high balls kicked to him - including one where he has his feet taken out when he's in the air (the tackler is ruled as being pushed). The other he gets tackled and pinged for holding on.
He wins a tackle penalty. He makes a good clearing kick from behind the goal line. He does quite a bit of other useful stuff.
He falls off the tackle of Samu. He misses what would effectively have been an ankle tap of Koroibete (who then bounces off Sotutu and fan favourite Sami T.). In the early 30 minutes he tackles Samu one off the ruck when he's surging for the line and fells him but doesn't hold him, so I guess that counts as a miss, but it's really an effective effort.
In about the 78th minute he disengages from a joint tackle to retain his feet just before the guy goes to ground - if they've marked that as a missed tackle it's ridiculous, but if they haven't, I don't know where either of the other two supposed misses occur - one might be Quinn Tupaea's.
Aside from the Samu miss (and the penalty if you're being picky - but, you could lay some of that with the cleaners) he's had an excellent and busy game. Yet some on the fern have assessed him as poor and a spectator and calling for Reece.
It's bollocks!!!
.
Compare Jordans game to Clarkes, they are calling for the wrong wing to be dropped.
Talk about uninterested on defence its all from the other wing.I think both have struggled a bit with the defensive system at times, but that probably goes for all of the backs this year. Maybe not Jordie.
But, Will had no problems with the system this week - he just fell off a tackle due to the might and power of the former Mako, Pete Samu.
Caleb had a few issues with the system and with linking on attack, so you're right about where the ruler should have been run.
Overall, though - I'm happy to persist with these two wings. Caleb offers the power option that we're otherwise a bit lacking in if Sevu plays.
Yeah, I'm not convinced Clarke and Reece are competing for the same position. Clarke is our only effective power winger in the squad and brings an important point of difference to our attack. That's why people preferred Reece to replace Jordan.
I'm with you on Jordan though, in my earlier post I said he's the closest thing we've had to Cullen. That post had some obvious hyperbole but that statement wasn't far off, he is absolutely electric when he gets going.
If only he was effective.
Great. Problem is he doesn't have the brains or awareness to keep the ball going after his breaks, so those stats mean nothing. Great break, ends in turnover cos he can't get the ball to someone ether
Nonu was similar early on. Made great breaks but didn't always link up with support, made low percentage pass attempts and failed to go to ground to give his forwards a target. He turned out okay
Had all sorts of issues in defence initially too, playing 13 ,
I can remember people saying, never want to see him in black again
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@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Dan54 said in Bledisloe 2:
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Crucial He's had a few games without scoring a scintillating try.
Aside from Boks 1, I think he's been fine under the high ball. Since Boks 1 it seems to me that there's been a distinct shift in Will's kick chase game. He's no longer mainly trying to catch offensive kicks, but is copying the Bok tactic and going up one handed to disrupt and knock down.
Yep Chris unfortunately at times (see 3rd Irish test) he scores scintillating try, but that has been all he has done . Game I mentioned I came away thinking he did nothing for about 79minute 40 second, and had an amazing 20 seconds, he is capable of so much more and has been slowly doing more in games as season gone on.
On the other hand - I've re-watched this game and Will was even better and more impactful than I thought. Has a significant role in all the tries.
First try - it's Will and SBarrett who tackle Ikitau into touch to win the initial field position - he doesn't lose contact in the tackle as I earlier recalled. Then Havili and Will join the maul to help provide the impetus to get it over the line.
Second try begins with a pin point cross kick to Will who catches it on the sideline above his head. He kicks the ball down the tramlines - chases hard and nails Kellaway. Gets to his feet and with Sotutu and someone else counter-rucks to win the ball which is spun for Sami to score.
Third try, again it's Will who kicks the ball downfield. Chases - while Koroibete fumbles, recovers and then Will tackles him and we win a penalty when MK plays the ball on the ground. Moúnga's try results from the field position.
4th try he scores himself.
5th try he makes for Jordie.
He takes both high balls kicked to him - including one where he has his feet taken out when he's in the air (the tackler is ruled as being pushed). The other he gets tackled and pinged for holding on.
He wins a tackle penalty. He makes a good clearing kick from behind the goal line. He does quite a bit of other useful stuff.
He falls off the tackle of Samu. He misses what would effectively have been an ankle tap of Koroibete (who then bounces off Sotutu and fan favourite Sami T.). In the early 30 minutes he tackles Samu one off the ruck when he's surging for the line and fells him but doesn't hold him, so I guess that counts as a miss, but it's really an effective effort.
In about the 78th minute he disengages from a joint tackle to retain his feet just before the guy goes to ground - if they've marked that as a missed tackle it's ridiculous, but if they haven't, I don't know where either of the other two supposed misses occur - one might be Quinn Tupaea's.
Aside from the Samu miss (and the penalty if you're being picky - but, you could lay some of that with the cleaners) he's had an excellent and busy game. Yet some on the fern have assessed him as poor and a spectator and calling for Reece.
It's bollocks!!!
.
Compare Jordans game to Clarkes, they are calling for the wrong wing to be dropped.
Talk about uninterested on defence its all from the other wing.I think both have struggled a bit with the defensive system at times, but that probably goes for all of the backs this year. Maybe not Jordie.
But, Will had no problems with the system this week - he just fell off a tackle due to the might and power of the former Mako, Pete Samu.
Caleb had a few issues with the system and with linking on attack, so you're right about where the ruler should have been run.
Overall, though - I'm happy to persist with these two wings. Caleb offers the power option that we're otherwise a bit lacking in if Sevu plays.
I not calling for either to be dropped, and never have since Irish series, I think Jordan has improved as I said, seems to look interested again. But I maintain he was poor/uninterested early in season, especially for a player of his capabilities
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@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 2:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Bledisloe 2:
Really happy to see Ioane back at 6.
Important test for Akira - needs to put down a marker to be the starting 6 because time (test matches) is running short for RWC.
I'd say the same for Taylor, Papali'i, Ofa, Nepo, Hoskins and RTS.
Any who play poorly might not get many shots at redemption.
…..and according to fern legend he ran through/over/around a total of 27 Irishmen for that consolation try earlier this year.
Let’s hope he can keep showing that kind of form.
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At the ground early to catch the 2nd half of the Black Ferns match, which is a slaughtering.
Fucking pumped for the game, should be a cracker, enjoy lads
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@No-Quarter it's busy already, fantastic weather
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@nzzp said in Bledisloe 2:
@No-Quarter it's busy already, fantastic weather
Fucking queuing for drinks is ridiculous, 100m long q
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@antipodean He might winge but I would rather he be coaching the ABs that Fozzie.
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is anyone catching SBW's words of wisdom? "A wounded beast is a dangerous beast." Could be tactical genius/strategic insight for the game or relationship therapy advice in the Happiness thread.
There's a movie script in there somewhere. Will Ferrell or Ben Stiller-level. -
@nostrildamus He was a great rugby player but he sucks as a commentator.
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I’ve got a good feeling about this game. Come on boys, hoping for a comfortable victory at fortress Eden.
