All Black backline
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@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
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@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
As far as i can see (and this is qualified by the fact i'm definitely a forward guy) our backline looks like poos because
we are wedded to being as flat as fuck. from 10 out
We don't have a game organiser at 10
We don't have an anything at 12
We are wedded to not only being flat, but very wide, meaning our wings are stationed on the touchline.
We don't know how to bring our outside backs in to play.I don't think the personnel are as good as the coaches seem to. And i think our entire formation fucking sucks.
If you gave Ioane, Jordan, Clarke and even Jordie just a little more depth and a little more time, they are going to give defences kittens. But we give them nothing.
SA Game 2 we looked shit hot out wider because of a noticable increase in our starting depth. R Ioane was over the gain line constantly, because he got the ball at pace with a bit more than a microsecond before the defender arrived.Who we pick means far less than where they start each phase from IMO.
I actually agree with this, but I will also add couple of points that need to ring true for success. Depth only works when you have backs or forwards to run on to it and you also need players to straighten to create gaps.
In most cases we have the players to do this, but often our players run others out of room as you mention later slower forwards clog the gaps. Reiko is a classic example of a guy who can run his winger out of space if you're selective, but I'm not going to criticize him too much here because I have also felt on a lot of those occasions the ball he has received has also not been ideal. Look at where he took the ball from SA 2 versus AR 1. This supports the theory that the problems stem more from 9/10/12.
If you look at the structure introduced last week, when setting for multiple phases we actually created momentum in the first 40 with player makers split both sides or 1/3/3/1 formations ready to use from depth out the back. Did we use it? No. Nada.
Foster was quite clear the players operated with more in eyes up mode, rather than followed strategy. In my mind Schmidt and Foster had plans for a territory game and with the new structure planned and to play from depth at the right end of the field. However we executed poorly again.
There is a clear leadership problem on the field which we have all seen (and it could be as simple as players taking it upon themselves to do something different rather than follow a script to be a savior) , confidence and still just not being good at the basics. Keeping it focused on the backs though, I don't think the captain is making backline decisions which also shows leadership from our 9/10/12 needs to improve as well.
Given the new structure is likely here to stay for (a while at least), I would certainly prefer a 12 that could fit style, but be able to adapt to flat and depth. This also means forwards need to focus on their core duties and clean out consistently, jackal where possible etc
Either way executing any strategy means players needing to follow that on the field
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@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
If Rieko lost his pace he would clearly be a woeful centre. There is no nuance to his game. No sleight of hand.
But someone like Conrad Smith would still be a great centre at jogging pace.
Sure look at Johnny Sexton at 37. He barely gets a hand laid on him and still makes loads of space. Its about attracting attention and fixing defenders.
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@Steve said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
If Rieko lost his pace he would clearly be a woeful centre. There is no nuance to his game. No sleight of hand.
But someone like Conrad Smith would still be a great centre at jogging pace.
Sure look at Johnny sexton at 37. He barely gets a hand laid on him and still makes loads of space. Its about attracting attention and fixing defenders.
Pretty big and physical when he needs to be though. Definitely no Merhts or ROG that’s for sure.
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@reddog said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life This is my entire issue with the POD system. We get cluttered and rely on frontrowers to have the adaptive ballskills too much. If it breaks down it is well behind the gain line and takes our loosies out of the game. I went to Mexteds coaching school a few years back and asked about this because then all NZ teams were doing the 1331. The comment was that the POD system was agreed on because of the seemingly yearly IRB changes to ruck rules to basically negate McCaw. I saw last years Crusaders change it up and Blues did it mid-season. To me for the last couple of years as we have struggled I kind of recall that period during Mains early years when we struggled to match it with the Aussies we went back to ruck and run quick ball with one-off off the 2nd phase. Remember fitzy just taking opposition loosies out of the game and putting us up to the advantage line. Now we just throw it back 20 meters to try do it there? And often turn it over.
Welcome back mate.
On the bolded, that actually used to work for us during the Woody and 2x Franks days. Then we went through a lock being the distributor period.
It’s pretty predictable right now and at least from a viewing perspective, it looks in slow motion and easy for the defence to read.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Black backline:
@reddog said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life This is my entire issue with the POD system. We get cluttered and rely on frontrowers to have the adaptive ballskills too much. If it breaks down it is well behind the gain line and takes our loosies out of the game. I went to Mexteds coaching school a few years back and asked about this because then all NZ teams were doing the 1331. The comment was that the POD system was agreed on because of the seemingly yearly IRB changes to ruck rules to basically negate McCaw. I saw last years Crusaders change it up and Blues did it mid-season. To me for the last couple of years as we have struggled I kind of recall that period during Mains early years when we struggled to match it with the Aussies we went back to ruck and run quick ball with one-off off the 2nd phase. Remember fitzy just taking opposition loosies out of the game and putting us up to the advantage line. Now we just throw it back 20 meters to try do it there? And often turn it over.
Welcome back mate.
On the bolded, that actually used to work for us during the Woody and 2x Franks days. Then we went through a lock being the distributor period.
It’s pretty predictable right now and at least from a viewing perspective, it looks in slow motion and easy for the defence to read.
yup
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@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
Rieko doesn't tend to throw hospital passes to his wingers after getting that tight ball and instead will take the tackle. I've seen people whinge that he doesn't throw these passes.
@Steve said in All Black backline:
If Rieko lost his pace he would clearly be a woeful centre. There is no nuance to his game. No sleight of hand.
You're responding to a post describing a piece of sleight of hand from him than lead to a try.
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@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
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@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
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@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
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@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
True dat.
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@Chris said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
Possibly true, but if so they are lying when they publicly say otherwise.
My guess. They revert to type under pressure. Every team now sees that if you pressure the ABs hard they will make errors that keep you in the game.
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@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
Possibly true, but if so they are lying when they publicly say otherwise.
My guess. They revert to type under pressure. Every team now sees that if you pressure the ABs hard they will make errors that keep you in the game.
Yeah no doubt, not trusting the systems as well is why they revert back if something is not working you revert back under pressure what you know which normally is want you are doing at training.
when you come into environments that are not winning the training is what you need to break down first, training the wrong way means you play the wrong way.
If training is replicating the pressure on the field it is easier to stay in the zone under pressure in the game.
It tells me the Ab's are not confident in their systems on and off the field because it is not working.
Logical thing then is to revert back to what you know. -
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
Possibly true, but if so they are lying when they publicly say otherwise.
My guess. They revert to type under pressure. Every team now sees that if you pressure the ABs hard they will make errors that keep you in the game.
Yeah no doubt, not trusting the systems as well is why they revert back if something is not working you revert back under pressure what you know which normally is want you are doing at training.
when you come into environments that are not winning the training is what you need to break down first, training the wrong way means you play the wrong way.
If training is replicating the pressure on the field it is easier to stay in the zone under pressure in the game.
It tells me the Ab's are not confident in their systems on and off the field because it is not working.
Logical thing then is to revert back to what you know.But hang on, isn't the argument that when they changed by playing deeper and kicking smarter it worked? They have seen success in SA then changed so I don't get your logic
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@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
Possibly true, but if so they are lying when they publicly say otherwise.
My guess. They revert to type under pressure. Every team now sees that if you pressure the ABs hard they will make errors that keep you in the game.
Yeah no doubt, not trusting the systems as well is why they revert back if something is not working you revert back under pressure what you know which normally is want you are doing at training.
when you come into environments that are not winning the training is what you need to break down first, training the wrong way means you play the wrong way.
If training is replicating the pressure on the field it is easier to stay in the zone under pressure in the game.
It tells me the Ab's are not confident in their systems on and off the field because it is not working.
Logical thing then is to revert back to what you know.But hang on, isn't the argument that when they changed by playing deeper and kicking smarter it worked? They have seen success in SA then changed so I don't get your logic
My question is why from the start of the Argentine test change that by standing too flat, a complete reversal.
Was that a Schmidt thing ?someone did that.
If so it’s what I am saying is we have success with a certain depth and pattern then all of sudden from the first minute the next week it’s completely different.
That is something you do not see in sports teams someone didn’t trust something there, or what is the logic in such a dramatic change from the start of the game.
Not pressure as it was from the start of the game.
It was the start up tactic from minute 1. -
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
Possibly true, but if so they are lying when they publicly say otherwise.
My guess. They revert to type under pressure. Every team now sees that if you pressure the ABs hard they will make errors that keep you in the game.
Yeah no doubt, not trusting the systems as well is why they revert back if something is not working you revert back under pressure what you know which normally is want you are doing at training.
when you come into environments that are not winning the training is what you need to break down first, training the wrong way means you play the wrong way.
If training is replicating the pressure on the field it is easier to stay in the zone under pressure in the game.
It tells me the Ab's are not confident in their systems on and off the field because it is not working.
Logical thing then is to revert back to what you know.But hang on, isn't the argument that when they changed by playing deeper and kicking smarter it worked? They have seen success in SA then changed so I don't get your logic
My question is why from the start of the Argentine test change that by standing too flat, a complete reversal.
Was that a Schmidt thing ?someone did that.
If so it’s what I am saying is we have success with a certain depth and pattern then all of sudden from the first minute the next week it’s completely different.
That is something you do not see in sports teams someone didn’t trust something there, or what is the logic in such a dramatic change from the start of the game.
Not pressure as it was from the start of the game.
It was the start up tactic from minute 1.If so I get what you are saying.
-
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
Possibly true, but if so they are lying when they publicly say otherwise.
My guess. They revert to type under pressure. Every team now sees that if you pressure the ABs hard they will make errors that keep you in the game.
Yeah no doubt, not trusting the systems as well is why they revert back if something is not working you revert back under pressure what you know which normally is want you are doing at training.
when you come into environments that are not winning the training is what you need to break down first, training the wrong way means you play the wrong way.
If training is replicating the pressure on the field it is easier to stay in the zone under pressure in the game.
It tells me the Ab's are not confident in their systems on and off the field because it is not working.
Logical thing then is to revert back to what you know.But hang on, isn't the argument that when they changed by playing deeper and kicking smarter it worked? They have seen success in SA then changed so I don't get your logic
My question is why from the start of the Argentine test change that by standing too flat, a complete reversal.
Was that a Schmidt thing ?someone did that.
If so it’s what I am saying is we have success with a certain depth and pattern then all of sudden from the first minute the next week it’s completely different.
That is something you do not see in sports teams someone didn’t trust something there, or what is the logic in such a dramatic change from the start of the game.
Not pressure as it was from the start of the game.
It was the start up tactic from minute 1.If so I get what you are saying.
Do we have a player coach disconnection and it’s getting worse.
Normally a trust issue. -
@Chris I only quickly put the highlights on so aren't completely sure but my recollection of backs alignment wasn't the same as yours.
I could see lots of flat forwards in the line (like Ireland do) but the backs were running from deep. Jordie came from well back to hit a gap in Clarke's try and both Havili and Reiko were deep.
I think Havili comes up flat as part of the plan but he comes outside in to hold some of the drift (or take advantage if they do).
I'm happy to be proved wrong and will see if I can find the full replay but I'm not seeing this flatness in the first half so far. -
@Chris said in All Black backline:
@mariner4life said in All Black backline:
@Crucial said in All Black backline:
@No-Quarter said in All Black backline:
@reprobate said in All Black backline:
Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.
He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.
The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.
The bolded bit - Clarke's try was created by Rieko holding 2 defenders and putting Jordie through the gap. I don't think you realise how much he's developed at 13, he's been leading the way in try assists for the Blues (and probably SR but I'm too lazy to look it up)
The problem with Rieko isn't that he can't do all the things you talk about, it's that he gets the ball and defender at the same because because of our braindead flat & wide formation.
At Ellis Park our backline looked shit hot despite RM and DH having erratic games because we stood deeper and gave players like Rieko a chance to run the ball.
@mariner4life is right when he says it doesn't actually matter who we pick if we continue with that dumb flat formation on attack.
We don't know if that was the coaches or the players though. Post game comments implied that it was the players that didn't hold depth and were over eager.
if you tell the players to do one thing, and they do another, and then lose, repeatedly, you drop them.
Maybe the players are not listening because they do not trust or believe in the messages being sent to them.
then you drop them. be in fucking charge
-
@Crucial our backs were only deep for the Clarke try as it came from an Argentinian line out. Amazing what players like Rieko and Jordie can do with a yard of space eh.
