Springboks v All Blacks I
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@Kirwan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Very strange watching an AB test and knowing we had lost after 20mins. I felt Australian at scrum time hoping not to get penalised.
Only ST and SB in the tight five played approaching anything close to “good”. Coles was worse than Taylor. Frizzel a waste of space, 20 minutes for 2 tackles, one miss and can’t catch a ball. . Whitelock a lineout specialist and missing around the field. Ardie exposed again against a physical side and Cane was completely ineffective. Akira was fine, good at lineout, and worked hard but not getting anywhere.
Our forwards got completely dominated.
You couldn’t save that Akira was effective either.
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@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Gregor Paul is on point. Clearly we need new players.
There is nothing now that can happen to convince anyone in New Zealand – anyone who knows the game – that the All Blacks are going to miraculously improve without a total and brutal clean-out and reset.
For me it’s the tactical approach. We were trying to run our way of trouble. You have to change that. Then pick players to execute that.
Clearly the Coach has to go, and some of the players are on borrowed time.
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@kiwiinmelb It puts into question a deeper issue of player development. NZ sport and NZRU have not been keen to go down a specialisation route, keeping it to the provinces etc... it caught up on the NZ7s who centralised after some poor results. The 20s programme it has also caught up with 6 Nations, Arggies and SA having a more centralised national development programme. I guess do we move to that development model that is working for other nations (But most research would suggest is not good for players) or stick with the model we run currently? If we look at our team now apart from possible coaching issues can we say we have world-class players and players coming through who will drastically change the future course of ABs? A conundrum we are in..
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@98blueandgold said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@kiwiinmelb It puts into question a deeper issue of player development. NZ sport and NZRU have not been keen to go down a specialisation route, keeping it to the provinces etc... it caught up on the NZ7s who centralised after some poor results. The 20s programme it has also caught up with 6 Nations, Arggies and SA having a more centralised national development programme. I guess do we move to that development model that is working for other nations (But most research would suggest is not good for players) or stick with the model we run currently? If we look at our team now apart from possible coaching issues can we say we have world-class players and players coming through who will drastically change the future course of ABs? A conundrum we are in..
Change the game plan to one that fits the players available. Not one that worked with players in the past.
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Got me beat what is happening, obviously some changes will have to be made, but Boks creamed us in forwards, and backs in midfield etc look lost. Will Jordan even looks like he needs to go to 15 or out of team, he almost looks like a petulant schoolboy at moment and seems unhappy at 14 so is not going to compete for ball in air, look for work or anything. I not saying in reality is what he is, just how it looks at moment, and I a real fan of his. Just one of the many things that crossed my mind during game. Forwards just not listening or working hard enough to get on shgoulders of ball carriers has got me beat! Still I will see what happens next week, which I guess is what I always do anyway lol!
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@98blueandgold I think there are a few things not working that well for us ,
Even our super rugby comp playing Australian and pacific teams in a style that we are very comfortable with , doesn’t prepare us well for test rugby , it’s like stepping away from that to a crash course in a fortnight camp to play a different code of football .
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@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@98blueandgold I think there are a few things not working that well for us ,
Even our super rugby comp playing Australian and pacific teams in a style that we are very comfortable with , doesn’t prepare us well for test rugby , it’s like stepping away from that to a crash course in a fortnight camp to play a different code of football .
Isolation has not worked in our favour in this regard
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This performance was fit for a Benny Hill sound track.
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@JC said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
What exactly did Ardie say to Gardiner that wound him up so much?
Edit, talking about when BB had just been poleaxed
Be good to know. Foster made the point that the Boks throw bodies in the air. Jumping into the contact zone. But if the defender is doing the same Gardiner ruled it 50 / 50 - the important point is that if you are in the air first you own the space. The other option of the defender is that remain relatively static with the risk the attacker with momentum jumps over the top of them. The ABs did a lot of that when defending.
Maybe we should treat it like a lineout. Get back lift our guy into the air and hold him up. We won nothing in the air apart from red card at the end.
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@98blueandgold said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@stodders Agree 100% with that, I said that in an earlier post up above. but past that point still I think we have seen the writing on the wall for a few years in terms of our development of players.
Everything goes in cycles. SA lost their way for a while and everyone talked about the Boks sinking into obscurity. Now, they are reigning world champions and consistently in the top 3 in the world.
Maybe NZ needs to consider whether the development pathways are finding the right types of characters, not just the most talented players/athletes.
Players like Shannon Frizell aren't the future. ABs need some fight, some mongrel. They don't need bullies who go timid when the opposition fight back. Times have changed and cameras pick up the dark arts. But ABs need more Samisoni's - teak tough and ready to fight for every yard. Forget the fancy plays. Simplify the gameplan like the Boks had to and start again, from step 1. Then build up.
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@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
We did seem to want to hold onto the ball more tonight, but we were so limp with the ball we went nowhere. So often a player caught the ball flat footed and just ran into a wall. The time we did break the D with Jordan it was an inside ball very similar to Ireland. We just look deft of ideas and simply cannot get any go forward. We again struggled to exit our half and most times we kicked back we had no chasers and they simply kicked us back into the corners. We got totally schooled tonight and it was downright embarrassing. If that was the best performance of the year we truly are fucked.
Our long kicking game only comes when we are static, and the player is 10 metres behind ruck, making the chase just about maintaining a defensive line.
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@kev said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
We did seem to want to hold onto the ball more tonight, but we were so limp with the ball we went nowhere. So often a player caught the ball flat footed and just ran into a wall. The time we did break the D with Jordan it was an inside ball very similar to Ireland. We just look deft of ideas and simply cannot get any go forward. We again struggled to exit our half and most times we kicked back we had no chasers and they simply kicked us back into the corners. We got totally schooled tonight and it was downright embarrassing. If that was the best performance of the year we truly are fucked.
Our long kicking game only comes when we are static, and the player is 10 metres behind ruck, making the chase just about maintaining a defensive line.
Same can be said for Smith's box kicks. Whereas the Boks have chasers competing to get the ball back
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@kev said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@JC said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
What exactly did Ardie say to Gardiner that wound him up so much?
Edit, talking about when BB had just been poleaxed
Be good to know. Foster made the point that the Boks throw bodies in the air. Jumping into the contact zone. But if the defender is doing the same Gardiner ruled it 50 / 50 - the important point is that if you are in the air first you own the space. The other option of the defender is that remain relatively static with the risk the attacker with momentum jumps over the top of them. The ABs did a lot of that when defending.
Maybe we should treat it like a lineout. Get back lift our guy into the air and hold him up. We won nothing in the air apart from red card at the end.
Jumping into the space whilst making no attempt to catch the ball is reckless. It should be penalised. Arendse did in in the first half on J Barrett and got away with it.
If Gardner had rightly penalised him then, it is probable that he wouldn't have launched himself at B Barrett late in the 2nd half.
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@kev said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@stodders you have to win the contact.
I thought ABs did that at times. Problem was, ABs committed too many men to breakdown, so after 2 or 3 phases they were running out of players and Boks were picking them off.
ABs body angles at clearout aren't good enough to clear bodies, so it is taking an extra man to effect it. It doesn't help that refs are allowing players to slow ball down whilst clearly not supporting their bodyweight, but hey, c'est la vie.
