Foster, Robertson etc
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@Asterik6 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Haha, not exactly champion, they finished 7th in the two seasons before
RobertsonRobertson's Assistants took over.I've fixed it for you, but if you read up the thread, Head Coaches don't have any impact on success and just are just a front for successful Assistants.
Oh hang on, that only works when Robertson isn't Head Coach....
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Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
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Don't know where else to post this:
'Time is right' - All Blacks mental guru Enoka leaving after RWC
Enoka has been with the side for 23 years and is the longest-serving member of team management, having been involved in 291 Tests including five World Cups.
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@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Don't know where else to post this:
Enoka has been with the side for 23 years and is the longest-serving member of team management, having been involved in 291 Tests including five World Cups.
Great servant. Got Richie and Co over the hump in 2011
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@canefan heard him speak last October, outstanding, a guy at my table said it was the 3rd time he had heard him speak, and each time, different, but equally excellent.
Said Wayne Smith, Richie among others as having a big influence on him too.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Gifford backing a Crusader. Colour me shocked.
Would be like Kirwan backing a Blue.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators. -
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.Schmidt not mentioned as he is not running for coach, so why would you mention him? He's irrelevant
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.Schmidt not mentioned as he is not running for coach, so why would you mention him? He's irrelevant
I'm sorry, I'm a bit off topic. Not meaning in terms of AB coach, just interested in whether his analysis is correct, that the best coaches are always innovators.
Seems intuitive, but sometimes people who carry on what is working well or who teaches basics and bring them back to a more unified game plan may be worth considering as coaches.
Might not seem relevant to ABS in the past, when usually other teams are trying to catch up but now it seems to me we are playing catch up AND seem to have lost some shine and robustness around basic skills.
So long story short, not sure looking at past AB coaching success is guaranteed 100% relevant here.
Innovation is good, but sometimes so is solid, robust discipline when the team is on the slide... -
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@canefan heard him speak last October, outstanding, a guy at my table said it was the 3rd time he had heard him speak, and each time, different, but equally excellent.
Said Wayne Smith, Richie among others as having a big influence on him too.
I think a lot of these sort of people fire off each other and you get magic happening in coaching set-ups.
A bit OT but a friends missus is a head teacher in Wales who heard Graham Henry speak at a few education events when he was there. Calls him probably the most inspiring educationalist she'd heard.
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No one had posted this:
All Blacks great Ma’a Nonu and former Black Sox player and coach Eddie Kohlhase are poised to be on the panel assembled by New Zealand Rugby to pick the next All Blacks coach, while current players will also have their say.
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@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
No one had posted this:
All Blacks great Ma’a NonIu and former Black Sox player and coach Eddie Kohlhase are poised to be on the panel assembled by New Zealand Rugby to pick the next All Blacks coach, while current players will also have their say.
It is absurd that current players should have any say (at all) in who their next boss is.
If this was common practice some of the best coaches across history would've never gotten a look in as players disliked their intensity - look at RWC winning coach Jake White, many of the players from that 2007 campaign don't want anything to do with him because by all accounts he was a bit of a prick, was an obsessed, detailed, driven & very demanding coach and so many other successful coaches, Bob Dyer, Eddie Jones, Rassie Erasmus, all equally driven hard taskmasters and had intense personalities that many players found uncomfortable at times.
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@kiwi_expat I doubt that current players will be involved in rating or commenting on applicants. More likely that their part in the process will be to be interviewed themselves for information on requirements. Eg what are the coaching improvement areas and gaps that they see. What attributes do the players feel they respect etc
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"That adds another layer of intrigue to the race, with players coached by Robertson at the Crusaders having an opportunity to let their views be known."
That's really interesting. I've heard from a couple of different sources that Robertson got mixed ratings from Crusaders players the last time he applied for the job (didn't rate his technical knowledge)
Plus its been reported several times that the players who went to NZR to prevent Robertson getting the job this year included some senior Crusaders players
If Robertson has pissed off people at NZR (of course he has) then this might be setting up the reasoning for going with Joseph
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
No one had posted this:
All Blacks great Ma’a NonIu and former Black Sox player and coach Eddie Kohlhase are poised to be on the panel assembled by New Zealand Rugby to pick the next All Blacks coach, while current players will also have their say.
It is absurd that current players should have any say (at all) in who their next boss is.
If this was common practice some of the best coaches across history would've never gotten a look in as players disliked their intensity - look at RWC winning coach Jake White, many of the players from that 2007 campaign don't want anything to do with him because by all accounts he was a bit of a prick, was an obsessed, detailed, driven & very demanding coach and so many other successful coaches, Bob Dyer, Eddie Jones, Rassie Erasmus, all equally driven hard taskmasters and had intense personalities that many players found uncomfortable at times.
Ok but current players also consist of players who the new coach won't be their next boss is, Nugget,, Lurch, RMo , Coles etc won't be involved as they packing their bags or retiring so won't be involved in team! Though I tend to think that Crucial has got idea, they will get their opinions on waht they think skills etc the new coach should have, and makes sense.
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The NZR board ultimately makes the final decision after the recommendation of the panel. I would expect some of the leadership group will be asked for their input in a general sense but they would need to speak to a cross-section of players from across the 5 SR teams. Canvassing opinions from some of the newer ABs wouldn't be a bad idea either.
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@Chris he started coaching halfway thru 2007 as he’d come back from overseas. They’d been middle of table then he help turn it around. They lost the final that year and went undefeated in 2008/09. He then coached them into Div 1 2010/11.
He hasn’t had a lot to do with the club in last few years apart from support his kids etc. -
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It is absurd that current players should have any say (at all) in who their next boss is
No it isn't. It's pretty dumb not to get as much input as you can from key stakeholders - in this case the players - who have experience of working with the candidates or have thoughts on the qualities possessed and needed.
You're not choosing a CEO to hire and fire, you're picking a bloke to get the best out of 30 or so mainly current players and you don't do that by ignoring them and treating them like factory-floor workers.
