Foster, Robertson etc
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial no doubt the media has been blowing things up and feeding rumors more than anyone
but i think NZ rugby have done themselves no favours extending fozzies contract the first time after poor results...and then having a formal review...thats backed him again...after more poor results
if they stopped giving the press an opportunity to spark up then we'd all just be moaning about the results
So you are saying that their decisions should be based on public and media perception to stop the noise? That really would be poor.
We need to understand that we don't have all the facts they do. Just like when we criticise individual players or selection without the info coaches have.
We just judge on the W/L column (and I get that for some that is all that matters) but what if there is a close loss and a behind the scenes acknowledgement that a key officials' decision was wrong. We say they should have overcome it but we still tick close W's as W's if it goes the other way.
I'm not saying that is what happened in this case but Foster's extension came at a really odd time. Maybe they felt it was unfair to not let him work through a laid out plan (that was then disrupted).
The facts he brings to that table was a retention of the Bled, Winning back the Freedom Cup and 3 years of TRC titles. If titles and trophies are the KPIs in his contract then he meets them.
If not losing to Ireland or France (who his team has only played once) was a KPI then he didn't meet that but I guess that they weren't.Razor in the background just muddies the waters. There is the public fear of him going elsewhere and media making out that he is impatient. Personally I won't tar him with that brush as the facts (contract commitment) point elsewhere.
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial I think they've done the smart thing.
Speculation about what is happening is by far the biggest distraction - once people have certainty, it will all die down.
Fozzie has done the smart (and good) thing by ruling himself out. He needs to take the line that it is a privilege to coach the ABs and very few get the chance to do it for one RWC let alone two. His realisation that "there is an appetite for change" is on the money.
But, an important point with the timing - as well as ensuring we get good candidates who haven't locked themselves in elsewhere (like last time) - is that if Razor (a front-runner) gets the job, apparently he's going to take Leon and Holland with him. If they don't run the process now, three Super franchises may suddenly find themselves in need of a coach in mid-December (6 weeks after the RWC ends).
Agree, and I am sure it was a consideration.
I'm not disagreeing with the timing decision at all. Just hoping that it has been made for good reasons.
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@Crucial no, the opposite, im saying they seem to be responding to the public when they shouldnt
continuously they seem to have responded to the public's lack of confidence in fozzie with...."yeah...us too kind of....oh well", they should have either just straight up backed him from the start, hell or high water.....or they should have swapped him when they have him the first renewal
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial no doubt the media has been blowing things up and feeding rumors more than anyone
but i think NZ rugby have done themselves no favours extending fozzies contract the first time after poor results...and then having a formal review...thats backed him again...after more poor results
if they stopped giving the press an opportunity to spark up then we'd all just be moaning about the results
So you are saying that their decisions should be based on public and media perception to stop the noise? That really would be poor.
no he is saying NZR media management is poor. Given two coaches have spoken out or had a rap on the knuckles recently I'd say there is ammo there.
We need to understand that we don't have all the facts they do. Just like when we criticise individual players or selection without the info coaches have.
Actually, (with a bow to Rene Descartes), you/we don't know for certain that none of us have all the facts, maybe there really is an omniscient poster on here! Queror, ergo sum. (Forgive my porcine Latin).
We just judge on the W/L column (and I get that for some that is all that matters) but what if there is a close loss and a behind the scenes acknowledgement that a key officials' decision was wrong.
No completely true, posters on here complain if we play badly, without tactics or resourcefulness as well. And there is such a thing as losing ugly.
I'm not saying that is what happened in this case but Foster's extension came at a really odd time. Maybe they felt it was unfair to not let him work through a laid out plan (that was then disrupted).
The facts he brings to that table was a retention of the Bled, Winning back the Freedom Cup and 3 years of TRC titles. If titles and trophies are the KPIs in his contract then he meets them.And percentages, and not losing tests or series that were never lost before.
If not losing to Ireland or France (who his team has only played once) was a KPI then he didn't meet that but I guess that they weren't.
We don't know.
Razor in the background just muddies the waters. There is the public fear of him going elsewhere and media making out that he is impatient. Personally I won't tar him with that brush as the facts (contract commitment) point elsewhere.
-He did mention it himself I believe.
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial I think they've done the smart thing.
Speculation about what is happening is by far the biggest distraction - once people have certainty, it will all die down.
Fozzie has done the smart (and good) thing by ruling himself out. He needs to take the line that it is a privilege to coach the ABs and very few get the chance to do it for one RWC let alone two. His realisation that "there is an appetite for change" is on the money.
But, an important point with the timing - as well as ensuring we get good candidates who haven't locked themselves in elsewhere (like last time) - is that if Razor (a front-runner) gets the job, apparently he's going to take Leon and Holland with him. If they don't run the process now, three Super franchises may suddenly find themselves in need of a coach in mid-December (6 weeks after the RWC ends).
Good post.
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The thread title says "etc". I'd appreciate a list of the contenders, any hot sauces?
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heard a soundbite on the radio this morning from David Moffat with a simple message to Mark Robinson over this debacle..."Leave"
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
heard a soundbite on the radio this morning from David Moffat with a simple message to Mark Robinson over this debacle..."Leave"
And Moffett knows an ineffective CEO when he looks at one (in the mirror).
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
heard a soundbite on the radio this morning from David Moffat with a simple message to Mark Robinson over this debacle..."Leave"
Wow.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
over this debacle
fuck why do i do this
what debacle exactly? Did i miss a huge piece of news where the NZRU have fucked up so royally Dave from the Takapuna U21-Bs is now the only candidate or something?
This whole thing is such a beat up of hugely entitled "fans" being fed by a disingenuous media somehow creating a shitstorm where none actually exists except in the heads of the delusional.
I hate foster a decade and a half ago so all you johnny come lately cantab fuckers can get in line, but seriously this whole thing is so unbelievably stupid.
And i will laugh my ass off if Joseph gets the job and everyone expresses how happy they are because the Razor fanboys won't actually be happy, and on top of that i distinctly remember threads on here about people want Joseph fired from every gig in NZ he's had over the years.
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@mariner4life the debacle goes back to 2021, or for many, even earlier.
If you cant see that NZR has made a bit of a mess of this, the extension, the stuff that went down last year, the facts alone without even entertaining the rumours, then may I suggest you go right back to post 1 and start reading
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life the debacle goes back to 2021, or for many, even earlier.
If you cant see that NZR has made a bit of a mess of this, the extension, the stuff that went down last year, the facts alone without even entertaining the rumours, then may I suggest you go right back to post 1 and start reading
sorry, the word debacle and "bit of a mess" are not the same
And what you basically have is a difference of opinion, and nothing more. Unsubstantiated rumours don't change that even a bit.
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@mariner4life I still think you should go back to post 1 and start over.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life I still think you should go back to post 1 and start over.
lol nice try
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@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
over this debacle
fuck why do i do this
what debacle exactly? Did i miss a huge piece of news where the NZRU have fucked up so royally Dave from the Takapuna U21-Bs is now the only candidate or something?
This whole thing is such a beat up of hugely entitled "fans" being fed by a disingenuous media somehow creating a shitstorm where none actually exists except in the heads of the delusional.
I hate foster a decade and a half ago so all you johnny come lately cantab fuckers can get in line, but seriously this whole thing is so unbelievably stupid.
And i will laugh my ass off if Joseph gets the job and everyone expresses how happy they are because the Razor fanboys won't actually be happy, and on top of that i distinctly remember threads on here about people want Joseph fired from every gig in NZ he's had over the years.
Great rant. I think. Was there a purpose to it?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
over this debacle
fuck why do i do this
what debacle exactly? Did i miss a huge piece of news where the NZRU have fucked up so royally Dave from the Takapuna U21-Bs is now the only candidate or something?
This whole thing is such a beat up of hugely entitled "fans" being fed by a disingenuous media somehow creating a shitstorm where none actually exists except in the heads of the delusional.
I hate foster a decade and a half ago so all you johnny come lately cantab fuckers can get in line, but seriously this whole thing is so unbelievably stupid.
And i will laugh my ass off if Joseph gets the job and everyone expresses how happy they are because the Razor fanboys won't actually be happy, and on top of that i distinctly remember threads on here about people want Joseph fired from every gig in NZ he's had over the years.
Great rant. I think. Was there a purpose to it?
no more no less than literally every single post on this thread that won't fucking die despite ALL the other sport to focus on at the moment
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
This site lists coaching stats - not sure they're 100% accurate, but they seem not far away....
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Joseph is treated similar to Rennie (on TSF) where seemingly the more his international side loses the more his reputation increases.
Let's hope NZR appoint this time based off actual on-field coaching results - as opposed to simply how well they interview.
The latter approach resulted in appointing a guy in 2019 without any record of success as a head coach at any level.
After all it remains the best predictor for future performance is past performance in a previous identical role.
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@kiwi_expat you can take those results into consideration but surely cant base it purely on win rate...the players Razor has at his disposal would be better to a man than the japanese national team
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Hansen had a 33% win record with Wales (10 wins in 30 games). He did OK with the ABs.
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@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Hansen had a 33% win record with Wales (10 wins in 30 games). He did OK with the ABs.
Steve Hansen had very little experience as a coach when he took over Wales in 2002 - 1 year as Canterbury head coach & 2 years as Crusaders assist. coach. Hansen was only 42 years old at the time.
Joseph is currently 53, he has been head coaching for almost 20 years now (across 6 different teams).
Scott ROBERTSON | Coaching Stats | Games | Rugby Database
