Foster, Robertson etc
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Has anyone picked up on the very real possibility that Razor was taking the piss out of the media?
First the random Bula then saying NZR will be making an appointment announcement in the next few days (which they did with Bunting announced for the BFs)He’s pulling our legs but it backfired on him slightly.
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@Kirwan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@booboo said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Mitch got sacked with an 82% record. Wayne Smith got sacked with a 70% record.
Good post, but just to add re the quoted bits, there were reasons.
Actually not quite correct, Smith actually resigned and wasn't reappointed which I think we can all agree isn't getting sacked! I personally would of reappointed him myself, but have to admit my opinion rightfully wasn't asked by NZR.
Splitting hairs. He reapplied for his job and didn't get it, that's effectively being sacked. Just in a touchy feely way.
I agree up to point, but remember how an awful lot of people just said if was pulling the plug after a loss he didn't deserve job! There was so much shit going down then over the fact he didn't see out contract. As I said I was all for him staying in job, but by christ there many people who wanted him gone and Mitchell getting the job!! Of course now 21 years later, everyone would of kept him on, how many of you argued for it in 2001?
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ARHS said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@TheMojoman said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Tim you have to wonder if Foster had any intention to stay on anyway, win or lose.
Nope, times up. There’s the door.
Yeah - in the spirit of the thread - to reiterate what I said 6 months ago.
NZRU - "Ian - this is your shot at the RWC. Tell us what you need. We want you to win it and we are supporting you all the way. But, afterwards, we are changing direction regardless of the result, because your record in the interim hasn't been good enough."
Ian might not like it, but it's a pretty fair stance.
Mitch got sacked with an 82% record. Wayne Smith got sacked with a 70% record. Fozzie's at 68% - a few percentage points off the (Uncle Laurie's) worst winning record of the past 40 years.
Is Wayne Smith really above Fozzie, AND got sacked for that record? I thought Fozzie had a 71% record (with 2 draws), so they are equal - but Fozzie has exactly double the games. John Hart was around 73%. Was Mitch actually sacked for his 'record'?
Farrell and Galthie are a step above that, as was Rod Macqueen, and Eddie Jones by a tad - but nobody else besides Hansen and Henry and Mitch. There are some well respected coaches with a worse record than Fozzie.
%s are just a stat the means little without deeper analysis. A coach in the 6N will have a different set of games than a 3N coach to measure. Relative strengths of regular opponents the same. That makes even the comparison of NZ eras difficult. Some coaches have benefitted from the days of NH teams sending development sides over here. Some have faced Lions teams etc etc.
Judging solely on 'the ABs should not lose' is a bit arrogant as well.
Performance is definitely a KPI but performance isn't solely winning %
Yeah - I couldn't be arsed typing out all Fozzie's shortcomings in terms of results.
I don't really know of anyone who wants him to stay, except maybe a few who have a "If he wins the World Cup" proviso.
The nub of my post is that I don't think he's earned that proviso.
I used these coaching stats - I thought they'd given Fozzie a credit for having a draw more than Laurie, - but it might just be rounding by different editors. His record appears nonetheless to be fractionally better.
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@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Splitting hairs.
That's the Fern in a nutshell.
Time to mute this thread again. It's annoying me immensely.
Threads are not airports, no need to announce your departure.
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@Chris-B Mate I not anti Foz or otherwise, but smarter people than me (and with all due respect probably anyone on here) appoint and judge the coaches. I just felt last time as I do this time regardless of WC results, I think we need a new direction type thing. I think a whole new set up could well be good for team, and how far we go with refresh is the quandary, ie management, assistants, fitness, skills .Or just the head coach.
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@Dan54 I'm not anti-Fozzie either.
But, judging him on his results to date, this has been a mediocre period for All Black rugby and he wears a fair bit of blame for that.
I don't think the appointment process should revolve around him and giving him every chance to redeem himself.
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I'm not anti-Fozzie either.
But, judging him on his results to date, this has been a mediocre period for All Black rugby and he wears a fair bit of blame for that.
I don't think the appointment process should revolve around him and giving him every chance to redeem himself.
It revolves around what is good for the team.
Doing this badly runs a risk of undermining the team preparation for the year. Nothing to do with favours to the incumbent.
The chance to change coaching regime was decided. Now the appointment of a successor must be done in a way that doesn’t impact on that decision.
That is why the appointment has previously happened after the RWC. -
Just to add some fuel to this great thread. Razor asked for a release to coach Fiji and was turned down by NZRFU.
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I'm not anti-Fozzie either.
But, judging him on his results to date, this has been a mediocre period for All Black rugby and he wears a fair bit of blame for that.
I don't think the appointment process should revolve around him and giving him every chance to redeem himself.
And I don't think it is Chris, this is all just speculation on here, I suspect Foster isn't reapplying anyway. I don't agree anyway it would make any difference to coaching staff and how they coach anyway. As Crucial says you just don't want to have team distracted..
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just replace "song" with thread and "singing" with posting...you're welcome
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@chchfanatic said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just to add some fuel to this great thread. Razor asked for a release to coach Fiji and was turned down by NZRFU.
So he's under contract to the NZRFU and, without mentioning he's asked to be released to coach Fiji, tells the world & media "my preference is to be here in New Zealand and coach my country" and re-iterates what a patient bloke he is?
He may be a great Super Rugby coach, but if what you say is true, he's either crap with the media stuff or is a bit economical with the vérité..
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@chchfanatic said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just to add some fuel to this great thread. Razor asked for a release to coach Fiji and was turned down by NZRFU.
Just for the RWC or for a longer term?
Makes a big difference.
If approached by Fiji to fill their gap for the RWC then why not ask the question? NZR might have thought the experience would be good.
Also why not say no? Should they allow a contracted employee work elsewhere? -
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I'm not anti-Fozzie either.
But, judging him on his results to date, this has been a mediocre period for All Black rugby and he wears a fair bit of blame for that.
I don't think the appointment process should revolve around him and giving him every chance to redeem himself.
And I don't think it is Chris, this is all just speculation on here, I suspect Foster isn't reapplying anyway. I don't agree anyway it would make any difference to coaching staff and how they coach anyway. As Crucial says you just don't want to have team distracted..
Not so sure about the bold bit. But, if that is the case, wouldn't it be handy to the process if he announced that? I don't see that it would disrupt the team any more than the half dozen players who have announced they're finishing after RWC.
We've got to appoint a coach for post-RWC either before the Cup or after the Cup. If we leave it till after, we're probably going to be in the situation we were in 2019, when most of the field were scratched.
I reckon appoint now and give everyone clarity.
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I'm not anti-Fozzie either.
But, judging him on his results to date, this has been a mediocre period for All Black rugby and he wears a fair bit of blame for that.
I don't think the appointment process should revolve around him and giving him every chance to redeem himself.
And I don't think it is Chris, this is all just speculation on here, I suspect Foster isn't reapplying anyway. I don't agree anyway it would make any difference to coaching staff and how they coach anyway. As Crucial says you just don't want to have team distracted..
Not so sure about the bold bit. But, if that is the case, wouldn't it be handy to the process if he announced that? I don't see that it would disrupt the team any more than the half dozen players who have announced they're finishing after RWC.
We've got to appoint a coach for post-RWC either before the Cup or after the Cup. If we leave it till after, we're probably going to be in the situation we were in 2019, when most of the field were scratched.
I reckon appoint now and give everyone clarity.
He's a rugby lifer. Maybe Fozz is hanging onto the hope we win the RWC and he gets to stay on
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I cant believe that Foster would consider staying on past the RWC, even if he manages to guide us to a win.
All the 1sts he has guided us to in the past few years alone, sure the 1st team to 4 RWC wins would go some way to soothing some of the other firsts, but surely the toll this last 4 years has taken on him and his family must be too much to consider staying on...or is he supremely mentally strong, or super deluded?
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I cant believe that Foster would consider staying on past the RWC, even if he manages to guide us to a win.
All the 1sts he has guided us to in the past few years alone, sure the 1st team to 4 RWC wins would go some way to soothing some of the other firsts, but surely the toll this last 4 years has taken on him and his family must be too much to consider staying on...or is he supremely mentally strong, or super deluded?
I've seen nothing except speculation that he wants to continue or has even decided on re-applying.
Hasn't said either way.
If he was to say he will retire afterwards that puts focus on him and pressure on his support staff and that doesn't seem to be his way.
I'm sure there are many private discussions around the topic but some media and fans don't seem to accept that. There is still a large element of 'baying for blood' and wanting to be shown to be correct in some form because of statements made in the last couple of seasons. -
@Crucial dunno, I saw a clickbait article the other days, supposedly from players (didnt click into it) saying the coaching issue was a distraction...I mean if he was to confirm, like some players have, what he was doing post RWC I think it would take some heat out of the discussion, well, assuming he said he wasnt staying haha
But I see nothing wrong if he was to come out and say he was taking a year off or going to Japan or Europe or something, obviously this all leads to speculation that he will reapply just fanning the flames of the pyre people have for him.
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Totally, I think it's pathetic for a bunch of professionals to use distraction as an excuse. Get over yourselves, leadership and personel changes happen all the time. Players have said what they're doing, that gives clarity and removes distractions. Stop being so fucking precious and sneaky. State what's happening, including NZR and foster. Razor has been honest and said what he wants, now so should NZR. It's the opaqueness that leads to speculation
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Interesting if the NZR turned down Razors request
to coach Fiji if it was only to the WC, they have previously allowed Contracted coaches Jason Ryan to work with Fiji and Tony Brown to work with Japan.
I am not sure what to read into that,
You could speculate on a lot of scenarios.
By a release does that mean a permanent release from NZR after SR,or just a release for the WC.
New Zealand national rugby union team - Wikipedia
