Foster, Robertson etc
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@mariner4life it’s not easy to put the genie back in the bottle once the media smelled blood. This sort of editorial is a classic case of it. It’s just commentary from a media outlet that is wanting blood on the floor. NZRU can’t stop this or try and manage it from here on in (I think that’s what they thought Sunday’s bizarre presser would do) until ‘a process’ is completed (ie the Board meeting).
I personally don’t think he is gone and still think an Assistant will be replaced.
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@mariner4life said in Foster:
Incredibly unfair to all parties because the NZRU dithered
It's rubbish. Cauterise the wound after Ireland 3, and people will understand - if not like it, at least it's clear.
This has been terrible; a much improved perofrmance, players coming out in support ... moving Foster on now is messy as all hell.
Robinson should go, as well as a lot of the board. The governance has been terrible (again)
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@mariner4life it’s not easy to put the genie back in the bottle once the media smelled blood. This sort of editorial is a classic case of it. It’s just commentary from a media outlet that is wanting blood on the floor. NZRU can’t stop this or try and manage it from here on in (I think that’s what they thought Sunday’s bizarre presser would do) until ‘a process’ is completed (ie the Board meeting).
I personally don’t think he is gone and still think an Assistant will be replaced.
Why not just endorse the Man as HC and go through this stupid review again.
Either he is Coach or Not.Because they haven't it smells of they are thinking of change of HC, have they all ready committed to a HC change before Saturdays victory.
But all we have is we don't know, we haven't decided ffs. -
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@mariner4life it’s not easy to put the genie back in the bottle once the media smelled blood. This sort of editorial is a classic case of it. It’s just commentary from a media outlet that is wanting blood on the floor. NZRU can’t stop this or try and manage it from here on in (I think that’s what they thought Sunday’s bizarre presser would do) until ‘a process’ is completed (ie the Board meeting).
I personally don’t think he is gone and still think an Assistant will be replaced.
i don't think he's gone either. But i read enough NRL media to know exactly how this goes, and the media always get their man.
This all could have been avoided after Ireland either way with a bit of decisive messaging.
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@Chris the Board need to do that endorsement, not the CEO. So it’s up to the Board to get together and balance all the relevant factors.
No doubt it seems like it has gone on and on for so long and there have been convenient and real factors such as on tour, preparation, announcement of new assistant - but a circuit breaker is rarely convenient and that’s what is needed and we now have time - whatever the outcome might be.
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
I knew a few people that backed Foster solely because Hansen said he was good to go.
At the time I argued that leopards don't change their spots, but Hansen's endorsement meant that they believed Fostyer had learned enough as AB assistant.
Hansen has to bear a huge amount of the blame here. He had massive sway, and he used it unwisely.
After the 2016 EOYT I was calling for him to step down. That loss to Ireland, of which I was there was the start of this regression. I've been particularly tough on Foster but I've equally layed the blame at the feet of Shag.
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@chchfanatic said in Foster:
My source has gone to ground and not replying at the moment. Which is unusual for him. So this may mean a change in the coaching structure he told me a couple of weeks ago. I’m seeing him at a function tomorrow night so may get more info then. It sounds like a right cluster f**k though
That one was pretty specific and required quite a few dominos to fall in the right direction, so
I won't be surprised if it falls a bit short - especially given that Mark Robinson hasn't exactly got his way on many big things during his tenure.Leon in to replace Mooar wouldn't surprise me, though - even if Fozzie survives.
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This whole coaching debate feels like I'm watching Zac Snyders Justice League - I just want it to end and it appears like it will go on for ever.
My worthless two cents is there's only two options:
- Razor is head coach immediately.
- Fozzie stays on until the end of the RWC.
I don't want to see any interim coach bullshit. Just make a decision either way and stick with it until the RWC.
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Surely Fozzie has to go. I can just imagine the angst if he is kept on because of the weekend's result only for the ABs to revert to type in the coming matches. I don't think I have the energy for it.
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I have no idea what will happen.
That out of the way, I think that:
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the decision hasn't been made yet.
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a compromise "consensus" decision is most likely. Something like Foster retained but he will get another assistant to coach the backs or defence. I think Leon McDonald and Razor will be offered some smaller roles that will allow them to be involved but keep their super rugby gigs.
Lots of people sitting around a room discussing this sort of thing sometimes leads to a hodge podge of a decision.
Those are my speculative ravings.
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@kiwiinmelb absolutely!
It has been the soft underbelly of our team the past few (or more) seasons that has been at the heart of our issues, fix that, and you can operate differently.
The Boks and England have typically managed with a good pack and limited backs, we know we have world class backs, but they need some fucking decent ball to work with, and a decent pack provides this.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
Surely Fozzie has to go. I can just imagine the angst if he is kept on because of the weekend's result only for the ABs to revert to type in the coming matches. I don't think I have the energy for it.
To be honest - even if Fozzie stays, I can readily see us winning the Rugby Championship. We're in the box seat in terms of the draw now - three home games and we've shared a series away with the World Champs.
End of year tour - I'd expect a Fozzie coached team to win at least 3 of 4.
Big problem is that when we get to the big dance, I don't think Fozzie as Head Coach is going to give us the best chance of winning - I reckon Razor is significantly more inspirational.
We might fluke it as a starters' chance, but we won't be favourites.
Pretty sure we'll know our destiny by the weekend.
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Can lightning strike twice?
The inside story of the most ruthless sacking in Welsh rugby history
It was 14 years ago that the WRU took the decision to get rid of Gareth Jenkins and bring Warren Gatland on board
And fuck me, Foster was in the mix back in 2007
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This post is deleted!
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@MiketheSnow said in Foster:
Can lightning strike twice?
It was 14 years ago that the WRU took the decision to get rid of Gareth Jenkins and bring Warren Gatland on board
And fuck me, Foster was in the mix back in 2007
By 2007, his record was losing finalist NPC 2002, losing NPC semi-finalist 2003, losing semi-finalist Chiefs 2004, 6th place 2005, 7th place 2006, 7th place 2007.
A reasonable start and then fading.
I'll say this for him, his positions he has achieved as a coach have generally been better than his actual results. Must be a good interviewer and liked by the players...........
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@MiketheSnow said in Foster:
Can lightning strike twice?
It was 14 years ago that the WRU took the decision to get rid of Gareth Jenkins and bring Warren Gatland on board
And fuck me, Foster was in the mix back in 2007
By 2007, his record was losing finalist NPC 2002, losing NPC semi-finalist 2003, losing semi-finalist Chiefs 2004, 6th place 2005, 7th place 2006, 7th place 2007.
A reasonable start and then fading.
I'll say this for him, his positions he has achieved as a coach have generally been better than his actual results. Must be a good interviewer and liked by the players...........
Well at least he is consistent at being shit.
It is Amazing me how he gets these gigs, not on his history that is for sure. -
This whole coaching debate feels like I'm watching Zac Snyders Justice League - I just want it to end and it appears like it will go on for ever.
My worthless two cents is there's only two options:
- Razor is head coach immediately.
- Fozzie stays on until the end of the RWC.
I don't want to see any interim coach bullshit. Just make a decision either way and stick with it until the RWC.
Either option is now fraught with risk thanks to NZR's lacks of leadership and those risks are key to any decision NZR makes. Unless they show some leadership and cojones, I suspect they'll fuck up yet again.
Their inability to express support for Foster or replace him when they could is/was bad enough, but the way he's been treated by NZR and their failure to call-out the abuse Foster and his team have been receiving has been appalling and to me is pretty indicative of rotten management who pay lip-service to their people at the sharp end.
Regardless of ability or results, Foster, his captain and team have behaved with dignity, supported each other thru hard times and shown real grit. They don't deserve to be treated as they have been by NZR and, frankly, the NZR "leadership" doesn't deserve them.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
This whole coaching debate feels like I'm watching Zac Snyders Justice League - I just want it to end and it appears like it will go on for ever.
My worthless two cents is there's only two options:
- Razor is head coach immediately.
- Fozzie stays on until the end of the RWC.
I don't want to see any interim coach bullshit. Just make a decision either way and stick with it until the RWC.
Either option is now fraught with risk thanks to NZR's lacks of leadership and those risks are key to any decision NZR makes. Unless they show some leadership and cojones, I suspect they'll fuck up yet again.
Their inability to express support for Foster or replace him when they could is/was bad enough, but the way he's been treated by NZR and their failure to call-out the abuse Foster and his team have been receiving has been appalling and to me is pretty indicative of rotten management who pay lip-service to their people at the sharp end.
Regardless of ability or results, Foster, his captain and team have behaved with dignity, supported each other thru hard times and shown real grit. They don't deserve to be treated as they have been by NZR and, frankly, the NZR "leadership" doesn't deserve them.
Generally agree with what you are saying. But what "abuse" is everyone talking about? Genuine question. Are there trolls on Twitter or other platforms giving real abuse? Or is it just the fans and media saying get rid of Fozzie and Sam?
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@Old-Samurai-Jack I'll venture to suggest the fat bullshit that goes on here would be multiplied by 10 on less reputable platforms than TSF.
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@booboo Roger that but aren't you always going to get some form of that? And why would you care what some random keyboard warriors are saying? It seemed to me Foster was miffed at the media but really, in my view, they have been pretty measured in the face of some dire rugby.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
This whole coaching debate feels like I'm watching Zac Snyders Justice League - I just want it to end and it appears like it will go on for ever.
My worthless two cents is there's only two options:
- Razor is head coach immediately.
- Fozzie stays on until the end of the RWC.
I don't want to see any interim coach bullshit. Just make a decision either way and stick with it until the RWC.
Either option is now fraught with risk thanks to NZR's lacks of leadership and those risks are key to any decision NZR makes. Unless they show some leadership and cojones, I suspect they'll fuck up yet again.
Their inability to express support for Foster or replace him when they could is/was bad enough, but the way he's been treated by NZR and their failure to call-out the abuse Foster and his team have been receiving has been appalling and to me is pretty indicative of rotten management who pay lip-service to their people at the sharp end.
Regardless of ability or results, Foster, his captain and team have behaved with dignity, supported each other thru hard times and shown real grit. They don't deserve to be treated as they have been by NZR and, frankly, the NZR "leadership" doesn't deserve them.
Generally agree with what you are saying. But what "abuse" is everyone talking about? Genuine question. Are there trolls on Twitter or other platforms giving real abuse? Or is it just the fans and media saying get rid of Fozzie and Sam?
The Social media abuse is obvious. And there's a huge difference between arguing he and Sam should go and a continuous media pile-on, the worst of the British press would be proud of (some were questioning his integrity and, IIRC his mental heath).
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@Old-Samurai-Jack funnily, I saw more talk, minor analysis on the TV1/TV3 news and sports news about the ABs sine the 3rd test loss to the Irish than I have for many years...social media however, is another kettle of fish
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
@booboo Roger that but aren't you always going to get some form of that? And why would you care what some random keyboard warriors are saying? It seemed to me Foster was miffed at the media but really, in my view, they have been pretty measured in the face of some dire rugby.
The point isn't that you are going to get abuse in the media and on social media, it was that NZR said fuck-all about it when it happened. It was left to former players, coaches - and even former Wallaby coaches to call it out.
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@Victor-Meldrew Roger that but I think you need to separate the media and social media. The way social media works is a complex societal problem no person has any answers to at the moment. The media on the other hand, .......
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
The media on the other hand, .......
... is a complex societal problem no person has any answers to at the moment.
😄
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I haven't really noticed any abuse per se. I have seen him heavily criticized (and partaken in that myself). I expect I live a sheltered life.
I do hope that criticism and disappointment over results is not considered abuse.
If anyone is abusing Foster in any form that would be pretty disappointing and silly. I thought we had grown up a lot since the John Hart/Wayne Barnes days?
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I haven't really noticed any abuse per se. I have seen him heavily criticized (and partaken in that myself). I expect I live a sheltered life.
I do hope that criticism and disappointment over results is not considered abuse.
If anyone is abusing Foster in any form that would be pretty disappointing and silly. I thought we had grown up a lot since the John Hart/Wayne Barnes days?
I think people are overly sensitive these days. It is no different from the expectations on past AB coaches, GH eluded to it in Weight of the Nation. I think Fozz's situation is made much worse by Robinson and the board's (in)action towards his future. It's not like someone spat on his horse or anything
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I've only just discovered The Whakataki Times.
There's some outstanding stuff there.
Straight From The Ardern Playbook: NZRU Executes Announcement About Announcement | The Whakataki Times
ROSEMARY ABBOTT | National COMMS 101 Yesterday NZRU Chief Executive Mark Robinson employed a tactic that is usually reserved for Jacinda Ardern’s communications team. Robinson called a bizarre press conference late in the day, which provided absolutely nothing of substance, effectively wasting...
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I've only just discovered The Whakataki Times.
There's some outstanding stuff there.
Straight From The Ardern Playbook: NZRU Executes Announcement About Announcement | The Whakataki Times
ROSEMARY ABBOTT | National COMMS 101 Yesterday NZRU Chief Executive Mark Robinson employed a tactic that is usually reserved for Jacinda Ardern’s communications team. Robinson called a bizarre press conference late in the day, which provided absolutely nothing of substance, effectively wasting...
Took me a while to decide whether that was satire or not
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
Surely Fozzie has to go. I can just imagine the angst if he is kept on because of the weekend's result only for the ABs to revert to type in the coming matches. I don't think I have the energy for it.
End of year tour - I'd expect a Fozzie coached team to win at least 3 of 4.
What??! Beat Wales Japan and Scotland? With the chance of losing to England?
You can't be serious?! I mean, imagining if we play well we could beat Wales, Scotland, and especially Japan..Let me put it another way: if Foster loses 2/4 he'll be less welcome than the super flatulence of Frank Zapa-inspired Powdered Toast Man...(of Ren & Stimpy fame)..
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I haven't really noticed any abuse per se. I have seen him heavily criticized (and partaken in that myself). I expect I live a sheltered life.
I do hope that criticism and disappointment over results is not considered abuse.
If anyone is abusing Foster in any form that would be pretty disappointing and silly. I thought we had grown up a lot since the John Hart/Wayne Barnes days?
I think people are overly sensitive these days. It is no different from the expectations on past AB coaches, GH eluded to it in Weight of the Nation. I think Fozz's situation is made much worse by Robinson and the board's (in)action towards his future. It's not like someone spat on his horse or anything
You've been a bit deliberately blind if you haven't seen the comments that question his integrity. Even on a moderated board such as the Fern we have posters declaring that his actions are motivated by getting a payout or for personal vanity.
I have only seen glimpses (before clicking away) of similar discussions on places like FB and Stuff but take those comments and amplify them and you are about on target.
Journos are crying that they have stuck to the facts but they are also wordsmiths and, as usual, imply as much as they state outright. The click-baiting 'opinion' pieces are usually the ones that lead the feral horses to water to make the inflammatory comments.
If these were one-offs they are water off a ducks backs but sustained public digs can be seen by many people and are what trigger these messages of 'lay off'.
We all know that in in this day and age if something is typed enough times it becomes true in the minds of some. That's where the concern comes from.EDIT: read back in the thread and see many of the same points made.
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I haven't really noticed any abuse per se. I have seen him heavily criticized (and partaken in that myself). I expect I live a sheltered life.
I do hope that criticism and disappointment over results is not considered abuse.
If anyone is abusing Foster in any form that would be pretty disappointing and silly. I thought we had grown up a lot since the John Hart/Wayne Barnes days?
I think people are overly sensitive these days. It is no different from the expectations on past AB coaches, GH eluded to it in Weight of the Nation. I think Fozz's situation is made much worse by Robinson and the board's (in)action towards his future. It's not like someone spat on his horse or anything
You've been a bit deliberately blind if you haven't seen the comments that question his integrity. Even on a moderated board such as the Fern we have posters declaring that his actions are motivated by getting a payout or for personal vanity.
I have only seen glimpses (before clicking away) of similar discussions on places like FB and Stuff but take those comments and amplify them and you are about on target.
Journos are crying that they have stuck to the facts but they are also wordsmiths and, as usual, imply as much as they state outright. The click-baiting 'opinion' pieces are usually the ones that lead the feral horses to water to make the inflammatory comments.
If these were one-offs they are water off a ducks backs but sustained public digs can be seen by many people and are what trigger these messages of 'lay off'.
We all know that in in this day and age if something is typed enough times it becomes true in the minds of some. That's where the concern comes from.EDIT: read back in the thread and see many of the same points made.
I would agree that the media have been typically irresponsible and fueled the fire with unsubstantiated pieces
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I haven't really noticed any abuse per se. I have seen him heavily criticized (and partaken in that myself). I expect I live a sheltered life.
I do hope that criticism and disappointment over results is not considered abuse.
If anyone is abusing Foster in any form that would be pretty disappointing and silly. I thought we had grown up a lot since the John Hart/Wayne Barnes days?
I think people are overly sensitive these days. It is no different from the expectations on past AB coaches, GH eluded to it in Weight of the Nation. I think Fozz's situation is made much worse by Robinson and the board's (in)action towards his future. It's not like someone spat on his horse or anything
We all know that in in this day and age if something is typed enough times it becomes true in the minds of some. That's where the concern comes from.
EDIT: read back in the thread and see many of the same points made.
Deans DID score.
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@Crucial I feel you're painting Foster as the innocent and naive little victim here. Do you seriously think his superlatives on performance after some of the atrocious tests this year were deserved? People were saying his comments were a joke and rightly so.
I highly doubt he's so thick and/or deluded that he truly thought what he stated with some of that praise. So there's duplicity going on from both sides. Gander, goose and all that. Play with fire...
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@Crucial I feel you're painting Foster as the innocent and naive little victim here. Do you seriously think his superlatives on performance after some of the atrocious tests this year were deserved? People were saying his comments were a joke and rightly so.
I highly doubt he's so thick and/or deluded that he truly thought what he stated with some of that praise. So there's duplicity going on from both sides. Gander, goose and all that. Play with fire...
As soon as the media flagged those comments up he came back and tried to put them back in context. That wasn’t as headlined.
I have no idea if his comments were deliberately misrepresented but it was certainly a great chance to make him look foolish and they grabbed it.
It’s also possible that the communication was very poor by him and left the door open.
Bit if both most likely but I doubt duplicity.
