Foster, Robertson etc
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@Stargazer yep, as I said, I saw 2 seemingly well placed Social Media pages yesterday, claiming they have good sources (maybe they are just bog standard TSF sauces aye @booboo ) inside NZR citing completely opposite things...
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew that's the kicker, Robertson SHOULDNT be able to dictate terms, but the way the last appointment process went and then the unwarranted extension and now this clusterfuck, he holds a pretty strong hand.
I think it is this attitude that has left it with the shit storm. Oh it’s such an honour, you should not get another job until after the NZR have finally done their interviewing, months and months after every other decent coaching position has closed. Yes it should be the ultimate for any Kiwi coach, but the reality is it is not the only job, and certainly not the best paid! So NZR have to start being a bit more accomodating to get what they want, rather than expect coaches to be at their beck and call. Players are being let go on sabbaticals, the same sort of thinking needs to aply to coaches.
If Razor doesn’t want the job without the promise of a full 4 year RWC cycle, and let’s be honest the RWC is what counts now, then NZR have to take it. Either give him the job, not without KPIs and break points (after 2023 RWC, and mid 4 year), or accept our best coach will be off somewhere else and we’ll be stuck with the leftovers. Again
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@MiketheSnow said in Foster:
If Robertson says no there will be alternatives, including looking outside of NZ for a coach.
Wash your mouth out
I didn't say a non-NZ coach, just not restricting the search to those currently residing here.
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@Machpants I'm more meaning that this should be a plum role with multiple applicants, but the position we find ourselves in now is even worse than when Fozzie was appointed in the first place.
So with multiple applicants, the hirer should be able to have some negotiation power, but right now, NZR would appear to have fuck all.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Machpants I'm more meaning that this should be a plum role with multiple applicants, but the position we find ourselves in now is even worse than when Fozzie was appointed in the first place.
So with multiple applicants, the hirer should be able to have some negotiation power, but right now, NZR would appear to have fuck all.
AH I misunderstood. But either way all those saying ‘if Razor doesn’t want to rescuse NZR and Foster’s clusterfuck, we don’t want him’ are shooting themselves in the foot. Same thinking that left us with Foster, the coaches will be queing up. Nope they get jobs with Unions that head hunt them
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If there is any truth in the Robertson doesn't want the coaching job how ironic.
Joseph,Brown Rennie all didn't apply last time.
Scmidht it seems doesn't want the HC role due to not wanting to tour.So the NZR might be stuck with Foster to at least the WC 2023.
And it seems they don't want him anymore.
What a clown show, The AB coaching Job we were told once it was the most premier coaching job in World Rugby the most sort after,or is it now seen as a poison chalice.
And no one seems to want it but Foster. Brilliant NZR just Brilliant work. -
For the first time that I can remember the AB coach position has become almost political in nature, akin to a struggling political party and daily speculation of a leadership spill.
Constant speculation of would be candidate(s), timing of spill/departure, public character assassinations, journos thinking they have the inside word, ex-insiders (i.e. players) having their 5 minutes of fame with their opinions, a would be candidate saying nothing, a public scratching their heads thinking “get on with it”, speculation that behind the scenes someone is ‘doing the numbers’ (this time it’s supposedly HR doing dollar numbers).
All the meantime whilst nothing is happening there is brand damage and public discontent.
Meanwhile the team is getting on with
governingplaying footy. -
@ACT-Crusader i think it's the context really
An unpopular appointment made after a process that, publicly, looked a shambles, coming on the back of a disappointing RWC exit. That exit came at the end of a couple of years of, while not bad results, certainly results that were not what many had become accustomed to.
No coach was going to be able to keep up the frankly ridiculous record of the prior decade. The building blocks of that side were gone. The rest of the world was better. But, public expectation had been set (how many 'greatest team in any sport ever" memes have we seen, with the winning record splashed everywhere) and the drop was going hit someone.
Throw in a couple of years of Covid restrictions have made people pretty angry, and a little callous i think too, and it's a delicious cocktail of spite all ready to go.
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@ACT-Crusader and the way NZR have gone about the appointment, extension and then (probable) sacking of Foster is a masterclass in incompetence, poor communication and tactical obfuscation.
People I know are as pissed with NZR as I can remember - the approaches to Aussie Super sides, the arrogance of trying to ram through Silver Lake all make people cross, or worse, disengaged. This has RWC2003 levels of poo-fingering all over it.
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@mariner4life said in Foster:
while not bad results, certainly results that were not what many had become accustomed to.
I think people can handle bad results if the team plays reasonably well and gets beaten by a better side. Seeing shit rugby on the park match after match, and being told we don't understand it's actually good rugby is farking annoying
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Meanwhile the team is getting on with
governingplaying footy really badly.I wonder why there is so much angst
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I have said before the rugby public has been very patient up til now. We have seen the drop in standards and form from arguably 2017. Foster was a big part of RWC 2019. I remember Hansen, in his bid to get Foster the gig, basically say Foster was almost running the show in 2019. We have been told to suck it up, ABs can't win everything, etc, etc, as the obvious form of the ABs went into decline and negative records have been broken. Excuse after excuse with soundbites that have now lost their meaning.
Now the backlash because people have had enough and fans are told to grow up, leave Foster alone, mental health, etc, etc. FFS! Just fuck off! -
@Stargazer said in Foster:
So many assumptions about what Robertson wants or doesn't want. Too much speculation, too few facts.
Given NZR has done nothing at all to try to control the narrative and perception then they leave themselves open to a huge amount of speculation based on what people are seeing. They've only got themselves to blame.
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@No-Quarter said in Foster:
@Stargazer said in Foster:
So many assumptions about what Robertson wants or doesn't want. Too much speculation, too few facts.
Given NZR has done nothing at all to try to control the narrative and perception then they leave themselves open to a huge amount of speculation based on what people are seeing. They've only got themselves to blame.
They've fuelled it too - Robinson with his 'Support him as coach for the SA games' threw petrol on the fire. They are being crucified in the media, and there aren't many good responses to direct questions like that, but fark me it plays poorly.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
For the first time that I can remember the AB coach position has become almost political in nature, akin to a struggling political party and daily speculation of a leadership spill.
Huh? Did you forget Deans v Henry and co?
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My fear is that Robinson has already been talking to the RFU and will be coaching England after 2023. But lets wait until we actually know something.
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.
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@nzzp and that headline earlier in the week saying Robinson had told Fozzie to resign if he doesnt win in SA...I dont recall any denial this happened.
Robinson should walk and hold the door for Fozzie.
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My fear is that Robinson has already been talking to the RFU and will be coaching England after 2023. But lets wait until we actually know something.
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.
Yeah you do come back from that. You are thinkig the sort of way that left us with Foster, coaches should be so honoured to be even asked to aplly, they should just drop everythin and crawl to NZR in sack cloth. Bollocks, this is the real world with pro coaches. They rubber stamped foster last time because he didn’t have international experince, the excuse, so how is he going to get that without coaching overseas? NZR needs to wake up, if they want the best coaches they need to realise that they need to work to get them. Otherwise places like Oz and Japan steal them from under their noses, by not being so high and mighty and just offering them the job. Same as players are allowed sabbaticals these days, NZR needs forward looking thinking on coaches. Wouldn’t be so bad if coaches had the same rules as players, when it comes to international eligibility!
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@Machpants said in Foster:
My fear is that Robinson has already been talking to the RFU and will be coaching England after 2023. But lets wait until we actually know something.
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.
Yeah you do come back from that. You are thinkig the sort of way that left us with Foster, coaches should be so honoured to be even asked to aplly, they should just drop everythin and crawl to NZR in sack cloth. Bollocks, this is the real world with pro coaches. They rubber stamped foster last time because he didn’t have international experince, the excuse, so how is he going to get that without coaching overseas? NZR needs to wake up, if they want the best coaches they need to realise that they need to work to get them. Otherwise places like Oz and Japan steal them from under their noses, by not being so high and mighty and just offering them the job. Same as players are allowed sabbaticals these days, NZR needs forward looking thinking on coaches. Wouldn’t be so bad if coaches had the same rules as players, when it comes to international eligibility!
No you don't. It isn't going away and getting international experience while waiting for the job. It's turning it down to coach one of our most hated enemies at a time when he's needed.
That's got nothing to do with NZR's failed application process last time.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
My fear is that Robinson has already been talking to the RFU and will be coaching England after 2023. But lets wait until we actually know something.
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.
Yeah you do come back from that. You are thinkig the sort of way that left us with Foster, coaches should be so honoured to be even asked to aplly, they should just drop everythin and crawl to NZR in sack cloth. Bollocks, this is the real world with pro coaches. They rubber stamped foster last time because he didn’t have international experince, the excuse, so how is he going to get that without coaching overseas? NZR needs to wake up, if they want the best coaches they need to realise that they need to work to get them. Otherwise places like Oz and Japan steal them from under their noses, by not being so high and mighty and just offering them the job. Same as players are allowed sabbaticals these days, NZR needs forward looking thinking on coaches. Wouldn’t be so bad if coaches had the same rules as players, when it comes to international eligibility!
No you don't. It isn't going away and getting international experience while waiting for the job. It's turning it down to coach one of our most hated enemies at a time when he's needed.
That's got nothing to do with NZR's failed application process last time.
Totally disagree, there is a fucking mess, why should Razor want to clean it up? And then, because it might not be fixable in the short term, he wastes his once chance at ABs coaching? So unless they offer him until 2025 minimum, I would say fuck off, too.
