Foster, Robertson etc
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@No-Quarter said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
But fair enough too, he is well in his rights to tell NZR to foxtrot oscar until after this year and/or RWC cycle
The optics of Robertson not getting involved when the ABs are suffering is horrific. If true, this will not play well with people, myself included. Opportunities come up when they come up, it's not always the right time.
Hell, it's a 12 month honeymoon I reckon, and a chance to start building for post-23
Only if NZR give him a gaurantee of RWC 2027, otherwise he is shooting himself in the foot. Knowing NZR they are not offering that. Cos they are fluffybunnies. But NZR are probably offering a contract til the RWC, with all sorts of clauses. After they fucked up Foster contract by not actually putting any performance clauses in it, they probably are now - thus Razor gets the shitty end of the stick and rightly says fuck you
There's no way NZR should be offering Robertson a contract through to 2027, that would be madness given Robertson's lack of experience coaching at test level. I'm happy for him to take over now (if Schmidt doesn't want it), and be given until 2025 to prove himself. That's more than enough time to prove his worth.
I said earlier that Razor basically has a 5 year appointment, but I agree that 2 years post 2023 is what he should be given (this year and next should be a free pass given the circumstances). But as old mate @Victor-Meldrew says post 2023 we need to see some rapid improvement.
In the ideal world, if Foster had been replaced after Ireland, you could have given any new coach until the end of 2022 to get things moving in the right direction and prepared plan B if things didn't improve.
That ship has sailed and if Foster is gone next week or so, it makes sense to give the new guy until RWC2023 but there's a need to keep things on a tight leash. I think the problems run way deeper than simply the coaching staff and NZR need to ensure any new guy demonstrates he's capable of fixing the problems (and working with NZR to do that) first and foremost
However, this may be the sticking point for Razor - we’ve seen some reports he wants a full 4 years to work his magic but understandably NZR and the general public should have reservations about this.
As @sparky says, either Robertson wants to coach the All Blacks or not, and if so, he can't dictate the terms. You don't give a bloke with minimum international experience a four-year free pass in the belief he's a world-beater . It's way too risky.
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@Victor-Meldrew that's the kicker, Robertson SHOULDNT be able to dictate terms, but the way the last appointment process went and then the unwarranted extension and now this clusterfuck, he holds a pretty strong hand.
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@ploughboy said in [Foster](/post/755111
to be fair there have been a hand full of posters here i have thought might have mental health issues in the last 7 months
Agree on that. And I agree with what Julian Savea said there.
I think Ian Foster is still trying to the best of his abilities to get the best results for his entire squad amidst the huge criticism while he is still employed to be in charge. And maybe he is all ready to step aside after weathering the flak while a plan B is put in place?
This contrasts with the angst that a handful of supposed fans are spreading with harsh attacks through online media. The players and coaches have families too who no doubt get told about it all even if they can shut it out for themselves.
I just hope that the players and coaches beyond the next test are not already badly impacted by the most extreme criticism.
It seems I am the outlier on TSF with this attitude. But I do believe that sports people need a positive support base around them to perform at their best for long periods in a high pressure high performance environment. I also think they know where they have been falling short and are motivated to do something about it through the pride and passion that got them that far.
I left my role in another sport because of ongoing bullying and undermining of HP coaches. I saw the sad impact on the health and lives of people involved and could not continue with it unchecked.
I read the fern to be better informed and to get a range of perspectives. What I do wonder about is what the less regular posters think. Is everybody so angry they need to vent harshly and regularly on individuals? There is not much material for those under pressure to be inspired by and that is a shame...Well put. I don't care so much about the fat comments. When I call that out it is just to call out the unimaginative, repetitive whining.
What does annoy me more is the posters that continue to allude to his integrity.
The man may not be the right coach or have the right skills/abilities for this situation but suggesting that he is happy to drag the team down for his own monetary purposes or is purposely lying or will put himself ahead of the team is pure bullshit.
Yes, it does come from frustration but FFS engage the brain a bit before the keyboard. -
I am quite happy for whoever takes over the ABs to not be restrained on a tight leash by the NZRU as it stands right now. These are the same people who were running the ship when we got into this mess. If you were Robertson, or anyone else for that matter, would you really want your ability to perform controlled by these people? Appoint someone and trust them to do the job. Having too many controls in place can be counter productive.
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I get why Robertson would like an ideal situation to work in (wouldn't we all) and it is his right to see if he can get it. However, at some point he also needs to decide if this is about the ABs or about his career and goals.
I'm not criticising him either way, it is his call. But I'm sure those that think he will be saviour will claim that he was driven away instead of him doing what he thinks is best for himself.
Deans did it and turned out to not be the messiah, Rennie remains to be seen and Joseph has the luxury of low expectations.
Certainly interesting times and a lot of people will be pissed off at the outcome from Foster going. -
Just give Robertson a two year deal past the world cup and review at the mid point. This year should be invaluable to him, an expectations free run at a World Cup to get experienced with that tournament.
If he doesn't want it, maybe he's not the right guy anyway? Move on to the next guy.
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@Kirwan yeah I think if he really wants to coach the ABs, why not go now? His mate Ryan is already there, while he may not get everything he wants, I am sure he can still cut a pretty sweet deal for himself, probably zero KPI's pre-RWC.
I see DC is helping the Black Ferns, why does Fozzie not engage his services? Jane for high ball work?
From the outside it does seem to be a very closed shop in terms of not looking to utilise the resources available.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Kirwan yeah I think if he really wants to coach the ABs, why not go now? His mate Ryan is already there, while he may not get everything he wants, I am sure he can still cut a pretty sweet deal for himself, probably zero KPI's pre-RWC.
I see DC is helping the Black Ferns, why does Fozzie not engage his services? Jane for high ball work?
From the outside it does seem to be a very closed shop in terms of not looking to utilise the resources available.
Fresh pair of eyes in several areas would certainly help Foster. Only so much you can do in a week, I'm expecting a worse loss this time.
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@Stargazer yep, as I said, I saw 2 seemingly well placed Social Media pages yesterday, claiming they have good sources (maybe they are just bog standard TSF sauces aye @booboo ) inside NZR citing completely opposite things...
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew that's the kicker, Robertson SHOULDNT be able to dictate terms, but the way the last appointment process went and then the unwarranted extension and now this clusterfuck, he holds a pretty strong hand.
I think it is this attitude that has left it with the shit storm. Oh it’s such an honour, you should not get another job until after the NZR have finally done their interviewing, months and months after every other decent coaching position has closed. Yes it should be the ultimate for any Kiwi coach, but the reality is it is not the only job, and certainly not the best paid! So NZR have to start being a bit more accomodating to get what they want, rather than expect coaches to be at their beck and call. Players are being let go on sabbaticals, the same sort of thinking needs to aply to coaches.
If Razor doesn’t want the job without the promise of a full 4 year RWC cycle, and let’s be honest the RWC is what counts now, then NZR have to take it. Either give him the job, not without KPIs and break points (after 2023 RWC, and mid 4 year), or accept our best coach will be off somewhere else and we’ll be stuck with the leftovers. Again
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@MiketheSnow said in Foster:
If Robertson says no there will be alternatives, including looking outside of NZ for a coach.
Wash your mouth out
I didn't say a non-NZ coach, just not restricting the search to those currently residing here.
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@Machpants I'm more meaning that this should be a plum role with multiple applicants, but the position we find ourselves in now is even worse than when Fozzie was appointed in the first place.
So with multiple applicants, the hirer should be able to have some negotiation power, but right now, NZR would appear to have fuck all.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Machpants I'm more meaning that this should be a plum role with multiple applicants, but the position we find ourselves in now is even worse than when Fozzie was appointed in the first place.
So with multiple applicants, the hirer should be able to have some negotiation power, but right now, NZR would appear to have fuck all.
AH I misunderstood. But either way all those saying ‘if Razor doesn’t want to rescuse NZR and Foster’s clusterfuck, we don’t want him’ are shooting themselves in the foot. Same thinking that left us with Foster, the coaches will be queing up. Nope they get jobs with Unions that head hunt them
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If there is any truth in the Robertson doesn't want the coaching job how ironic.
Joseph,Brown Rennie all didn't apply last time.
Scmidht it seems doesn't want the HC role due to not wanting to tour.So the NZR might be stuck with Foster to at least the WC 2023.
And it seems they don't want him anymore.
What a clown show, The AB coaching Job we were told once it was the most premier coaching job in World Rugby the most sort after,or is it now seen as a poison chalice.
And no one seems to want it but Foster. Brilliant NZR just Brilliant work. -
For the first time that I can remember the AB coach position has become almost political in nature, akin to a struggling political party and daily speculation of a leadership spill.
Constant speculation of would be candidate(s), timing of spill/departure, public character assassinations, journos thinking they have the inside word, ex-insiders (i.e. players) having their 5 minutes of fame with their opinions, a would be candidate saying nothing, a public scratching their heads thinking “get on with it”, speculation that behind the scenes someone is ‘doing the numbers’ (this time it’s supposedly HR doing dollar numbers).
All the meantime whilst nothing is happening there is brand damage and public discontent.
Meanwhile the team is getting on with
governingplaying footy.
