Foster, Robertson etc
-
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@sparky said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Razor to be in charge surely when the ABs play Argentina in Christchurch on August 27th?
He’d be on a hiding to nothing. As a minimum he would need to be allowed to reselect a squad. He seems to be a good coach (untested at international level) but he needs time. I mean let’s say he takes over and we keep losing. Then what?
Well we are currently 5th. I'm not sure how much more we can plummet.
Lose to argies and we will go lower. The only team is still be confident against is Italy. Any if the other 4N and 6N sides I’d not bet my house.
Arghh! You are right! Plus the Argies playing better rugby than us! We're like a hapless Wallabies side!
-
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
-
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
NZRU strategy mirroring the ABs gameplan - hope someone unearths a world class talent ☺️
-
@Bovidae said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
The first thing that needs to happen is that Mark Robinson is on the next flight back to NZ. First he was the kiss of death for the sevens teams in Birmingham, and now he is in SA.
Maybe he is there for the end of test 2 to be kiss of death to a certain someone? Learnings.
-
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
NZRU strategy mirroring the ABs gameplan - hope someone unearths a world class talent ☺️
The turnaround came with a new coach - Jack Gleason - who nobody seemed to want except the NZRFU, IIRC. Was a bit of a maverick, dumped a load of star players, appointed a Test debutante (Mourie) as Captain. People thought he was bonkers and wanted him removed as coach but he injected intelligence and shrewdness in the team.
Need some of that shit now, I reckon.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
NZRU strategy mirroring the ABs gameplan - hope someone unearths a world class talent ☺️
The turnaround came with a new coach - Jack Gleason - who nobody seemed to want except the NZRFU, IIRC. Was a bit of a maverick, dumped a load of star players, appointed a Test debutante (Mourie) as Captain. People thought he was bonkers and wanted him removed as coach but he injected intelligence and shrewdness in the team.
Need some of that shit now, I reckon.
We need someone who can add a bit of clarity to the entire setup, from selections to tactics to the atmosphere in the group
-
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
NZRU strategy mirroring the ABs gameplan - hope someone unearths a world class talent ☺️
The turnaround came with a new coach - Jack Gleason - who nobody seemed to want except the NZRFU, IIRC. Was a bit of a maverick, dumped a load of star players, appointed a Test debutante (Mourie) as Captain. People thought he was bonkers and wanted him removed as coach but he injected intelligence and shrewdness in the team.
Need some of that shit now, I reckon.
We need someone who can add a bit of clarity to the entire setup, from selections to tactics to the atmosphere in the group
It must be a difficult position for the players. When the coaches game plan isn't working, they may want to do some off the cuff plays or change the approach slightly on the field depending on the situation. But if it goes wrong, they can see negativity in the press and the public, so may decide to stick with what they've been told.
Doubt it, but I don't think it should be underestimated. ABs are human beings, not robots.
-
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
NZRU strategy mirroring the ABs gameplan - hope someone unearths a world class talent ☺️
The turnaround came with a new coach - Jack Gleason - who nobody seemed to want except the NZRFU, IIRC. Was a bit of a maverick, dumped a load of star players, appointed a Test debutante (Mourie) as Captain. People thought he was bonkers and wanted him removed as coach but he injected intelligence and shrewdness in the team.
Need some of that shit now, I reckon.
We need someone who can add a bit of clarity to the entire setup, from selections to tactics to the atmosphere in the group
Pure speculation, but I wonder if the team has lost confidence in itself, can't see the route to winning, are in a vicious downward spiral mentally and the pressure on Foster (who they like) is just adding to that.
From business performance experience, sometimes you need someone (generally external) to tell a team it isn't the management, they are the ones not performing, they need to fix it and ask in no uncertain terms what they are going to do about it.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
NZRU strategy mirroring the ABs gameplan - hope someone unearths a world class talent ☺️
The turnaround came with a new coach - Jack Gleason - who nobody seemed to want except the NZRFU, IIRC. Was a bit of a maverick, dumped a load of star players, appointed a Test debutante (Mourie) as Captain. People thought he was bonkers and wanted him removed as coach but he injected intelligence and shrewdness in the team.
Need some of that shit now, I reckon.
We need someone who can add a bit of clarity to the entire setup, from selections to tactics to the atmosphere in the group
Pure speculation, but I wonder if the team has lost confidence in itself, can't see the route to winning, are in a vicious downward spiral mentally and the pressure on Foster (who they like) is just adding to that.
From business performance experience, sometimes you need someone (generally external) to tell a team it isn't the management, they are the ones not performing, they need to fix it and ask in no uncertain terms what they are going to do about it.
Was that what Schmidt was for? Is he even travelling with the team? Enough of the half measures. We need bold action
-
I think you are right.
We have a perfect storm at the moment in New Zealand rugby, and after long period of success, we have failed to change our approach to the game long after the rest of the world has.
This has been compounded by putting in Fozzie as head coach.
Your analogy of coach is an interesting one and a thinly veiled reference to the situation today with Robertson.
If Razor takes the job then he will have an almighty job on his hands trying to turn this group around after it has been Fozzied for the last 3 years
-
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Was that what Schmidt was for? Is he even travelling with the team? Enough of the half measures. We need bold action
Not travelling with team.
Foster opens up on Joe Schmidt's role in All Blacks camp - new zealand
SPOTLIGHT: Ian Foster and the All Blacks have been the subjects of intense criticism after falling to their maiden series loss at the hands of Ireland – their first home series defeat since 1994.
-
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Was that what Schmidt was for? Is he even travelling with the team? Enough of the half measures. We need bold action
Not travelling with team.
Foster opens up on Joe Schmidt's role in All Blacks camp - new zealand
SPOTLIGHT: Ian Foster and the All Blacks have been the subjects of intense criticism after falling to their maiden series loss at the hands of Ireland – their first home series defeat since 1994.
That's what I thought. What's the fucken point then?
-
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
That's what I thought. What's the fucken point then?
Foster said his role was very clear but it is not clear to me at all whether Schmidt reports to Foster, to NZR or Foster reports to him. Doesn't seem to be acting like an assistant but Foster didn't want to give anyone a sense that Schmidt was appointed at his level or above. If he isn't travelling but giving strategic advice, maybe he reads data better than Foster or maybe? ...Don't know.
-
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
That's what I thought. What's the fucken point then?
Foster said his role was very clear but it is not clear to me at all whether Schmidt reports to Foster, to NZR or Foster reports to him. Doesn't seem to be acting like an assistant but Foster didn't want to give anyone a sense that Schmidt was appointed at his level or above. If he isn't travelling but giving strategic advice, maybe he reads data better than Foster or maybe? ...Don't know.
Lip service. Half measures
-
@DaGrubster said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Your analogy of coach is an interesting one and a thinly veiled reference to the situation today with Robertson.
Unintentional reference. Everyone believed Duff was a magic solution but it just kicked the can down Reality Road a little longer. It was rinse and repeat for the next two coaches as well.
If Razor takes the job then he will have an almighty job on his hands trying to turn this group around after it has been Fozzied for the last 3 years
Nope, I believe the problems way deeper than Foster and were there long before he took over. The danger is Robertson will improve things in the short term (google Hawthorn Effect) but the deeper problems will still exist and will re-emerge worse than ever.
-
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
Eerily similar to now when one of the best periods on NZ rugby crashed spectacularly. It was utter shite, mainly, for year after year with occasional glimpses of light.
New coach after new coach didn't help much. (Bob Duff, the wonder coach who everyone wanted, as he was definitely and quickly going to restore the team's fortunes after the '71 Lions loss, was a utter fucking disaster). Took a good 5 years of crap until the penny dropped with the public & the NZRFU that we didn't have the players, the world had caught up and we needed to accept we had some work to do. After that, things got better, but it took a while.
Don't want to sound gloom and doom, but I think we are poss. in a really bad way rugby-wise and it could be a very bumpy ride for a few years. NZR needs some clear-headed thinking on where the fault-lines are and start planning to deliver the needed changes.
NZRU strategy mirroring the ABs gameplan - hope someone unearths a world class talent ☺️
The turnaround came with a new coach - Jack Gleason - who nobody seemed to want except the NZRFU, IIRC. Was a bit of a maverick, dumped a load of star players, appointed a Test debutante (Mourie) as Captain. People thought he was bonkers and wanted him removed as coach but he injected intelligence and shrewdness in the team.
Need some of that shit now, I reckon.
We need someone who can add a bit of clarity to the entire setup, from selections to tactics to the atmosphere in the group
Pure speculation, but I wonder if the team has lost confidence in itself, can't see the route to winning, are in a vicious downward spiral mentally and the pressure on Foster (who they like) is just adding to that.
From business performance experience, sometimes you need someone (generally external) to tell a team it isn't the management, they are the ones not performing, they need to fix it and ask in no uncertain terms what they are going to do about it.
Was that what Schmidt was for? Is he even travelling with the team? Enough of the half measures. We need bold action
I'd argue Schmidt isn't external. Going slightly off-the-wall here, but I'd get someone smart & respected like Conrad to take a look and advise.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@DaGrubster said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Your analogy of coach is an interesting one and a thinly veiled reference to the situation today with Robertson.
Unintentional reference. Everyone believed Duff was a magic solution but it just kicked the can down Reality Road a little longer. It was rinse and repeat for the next two coaches as well.
If Razor takes the job then he will have an almighty job on his hands trying to turn this group around after it has been Fozzied for the last 3 years
Nope, I believe the problems way deeper than Foster and were there long before he took over. The danger is Robertson will improve things in the short term (google Hawthorn Effect) but the deeper problems will still exist and will re-emerge worse than ever.
Foster isn't helping though. This team should be better. But we do need to reevaluate our playing style in test and SR level
-
