Foster, Robertson etc
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Tks. Interesting that McLeod was first choice for D in both camps, then.
Interesting in the same way that cancer is interesting. The All Blacks defence must look great in a presentation of the theory. The implemented reality is somewhat different. At some point you have to stop wondering if it's just the players who can't make tackles as opposed to the system that is so easily exploited by the opposition.
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@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach. -
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
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It all points to the stupidity of the recruitment process, where you had to see who you could get in your gang, rather than appointing a Head Coach and then appointing the best available assistants.
No wonder Foster ended up with guys probably out of their depth.
NZ Rugby will have had to pay these guys out plenty and the buck for that stops with the people who couldn't see this was a foolish idea.
In a way, you really can "blame Deans" for this, because if he'd pointed out the stupidity of him trying to recruit before he was appointed, maybe NZR wouldn't have latched on to such a dumb idea.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
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@game_film said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
If the SA tour is a disaster, leave Foster in Cape Town and book a ticket back for Mr J White instead. Perfect solution for a short term fix if Razor does indeed want to wait.
They don't play in Capetown unfortunately, its not in the high veldt!!
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@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
I really don't know how you would reply to that, so are you saying the defence coach is just there doing nothing? If he's not the main part of setting up defence system , and had any morals he would of resigned wouldn't he?? And who would be the so called brains trust that sets up these things without in put from the coaches involved?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
I guess what I am trying to get at is that we can't look at then defence in isolation. It has to be compatible with the rest of the game plan. Maybe more brains than just McLeod came up with a blue print for the defensive system because it fits in with whatever else they are trying to achieve. Laying all the blame at McLeod's feet may be a little too simplistic perhaps?
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@Crazy-Horse im sure its possible and i hope you're right as it might be fixable...but im not holding my breath
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
If I understood yesterday's interview with Foster correctly, Ryan is not getting the selector's bit of Plumtree's roles. But even if he did, he wouldn't have had any input for the selection of the current squad, as he had only just returned from Fiji where he had his job to do with the Fijian squad.
Not sure it would have made much of a difference though. Coaching has been the main issue; not squad selection.
As Ryan only has 13 days before the first test against SA (effectively much less, because there are off-days and travel days in that period), I'm not expecting miracles. You can't fix much in such a short time.
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@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
If I understood yesterday's interview with Foster correctly, Ryan is not getting the selector's bit of Plumtree's roles. But even if he did, he wouldn't have had any input for the selection of the current squad, as he had only just returned from Fiji where he had his job to do with the Fijian squad.
Not sure it would have made much of a difference though. Coaching has been the main issue; not squad selection.
As Ryan only has 13 days before the first test against SA (effectively much less, because there are off-days and travel days in that period), I'm not expecting miracles. You can't fix much in such a short time.
i guess thats it thought, when we dont have a lot of time for actual coaching then we might have been able to make a bit of progress if he could bring in people he knew he could work with, people that know what he's going to want, to help speed up the learning curve, hopefully he has that with the crusaders in the squad
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@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
I really don't know how you would reply to that, so are you saying the defence coach is just there doing nothing? If he's not the main part of setting up defence system , and had any morals he would of resigned wouldn't he?? And who would be the so called brains trust that sets up these things without in put from the coaches involved?
No not saying McLeod is doing nothing. The brains trust would be Foster and whoever he trusts. It is not out of the realms of possibility that McLeod was under instructions to implement a system that was not entirely his own. That's what assistants often do.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Leon's a technical guy.
He did 6 years as an Assistant Coach with the Mako and another year of Ass coaching for Razor at the Crusaders. He was initially recruited as an Ass coach at the Blues.
I recall those 40 degree guys (whatever their name was) who used to do those analysis videos did one of the Mako showing they were using a unique pod system under Leon.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
Well put. Brown is by far the most innovative attack guy we have. Not his fault that he hasn't had the top players to work with. I used to have high hopes for Jason O'Halloran as well.
At least these guys look to create pictures that the opposition haven't seen before which, in turn, creates opportunities for the instinctive skills to finish off. That's way better than the current one of hoping to be in the right 'shape' when the opposition makes a mistake. That one only works against teams ranked below us (a number that is getting less)
