Foster, Robertson etc
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@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
People worried that Ian Foster isn't seeing Dunsinane for the trees should avoid reading this article
“We’ve still got a strong belief in the direction we’re going and just because it didn’t come together as quickly as we wanted, it’s not the first time we’ve been slow starters in July. I hate saying that, but it is reality.
Can someone enlighten me on this direction that Mr Foster is talking about?
Down the toilet.
Honestly speaking, with Ryan and Schmidt there, you’re not feeling better?
The defence is still a problem, but assuming we get Schmidt’s input there, and a new attack coach, we should be in much better shape.
Would I still prefer Razor there?
Yes, but this is the response I expected.
Not at all, unless there is some skullduggery that we don't know of (McLeod is actually not getting involved, Foster is only a Schmidt mouthpiece, etc) Foster is still head coach and he is not upto it. There is no other reading of what he has produced, same shit since Hansen. It was the awesome shit in 2015, now it is not. McLeod's D is still there, and as Squidge says that D stands for dogshit, our defensive structure is the worst it has been in the pro era.
This is the response I expected but that's only because NZR are so shit. It boils my blood that the buck stops at some assistants, rather than the boss. Especially when the worst offending assistant is still there. What really fucks me off is Foster has not just plain come out and admitted their structure, shape and tactics have not changed enough...
Actually I am stopping here, I am fuming so much I will not be coherent, but changing assistants is totally bandaiding bullet holes. Schmidt? Who gives a fuck, he's an adjunct. It is whole, big picture tactics and structure that are the problem - ergo Foster (and the pencil pushers that support him) is the problem
Just like in the NFL, removing the assistant coaches rarely ends well. Fozz is the reason those guys got chosen and why they are now out of jobs, the buck stops with him and now we have a lame duck HC. The NZRFU either don't have the balls to rip off the band aid now, or they have no viable alternative to replace him with
There most certainly are alternatives!
I mean alternatives who are willing to take the job. If the rumours are true and Razor passed, many other coaches are contracted until the end of the RWC23. Now if the NZRFU hadn't even sounded him out that is another story, and entirely plausible of course
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@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
People worried that Ian Foster isn't seeing Dunsinane for the trees should avoid reading this article
“We’ve still got a strong belief in the direction we’re going and just because it didn’t come together as quickly as we wanted, it’s not the first time we’ve been slow starters in July. I hate saying that, but it is reality.
Can someone enlighten me on this direction that Mr Foster is talking about?
Down the toilet.
Honestly speaking, with Ryan and Schmidt there, you’re not feeling better?
The defence is still a problem, but assuming we get Schmidt’s input there, and a new attack coach, we should be in much better shape.
Would I still prefer Razor there?
Yes, but this is the response I expected.
Not at all, unless there is some skullduggery that we don't know of (McLeod is actually not getting involved, Foster is only a Schmidt mouthpiece, etc) Foster is still head coach and he is not upto it. There is no other reading of what he has produced, same shit since Hansen. It was the awesome shit in 2015, now it is not. McLeod's D is still there, and as Squidge says that D stands for dogshit, our defensive structure is the worst it has been in the pro era.
This is the response I expected but that's only because NZR are so shit. It boils my blood that the buck stops at some assistants, rather than the boss. Especially when the worst offending assistant is still there. What really fucks me off is Foster has not just plain come out and admitted their structure, shape and tactics have not changed enough...
Actually I am stopping here, I am fuming so much I will not be coherent, but changing assistants is totally bandaiding bullet holes. Schmidt? Who gives a fuck, he's an adjunct. It is whole, big picture tactics and structure that are the problem - ergo Foster (and the pencil pushers that support him) is the problem
Just like in the NFL, removing the assistant coaches rarely ends well. Fozz is the reason those guys got chosen and why they are now out of jobs, the buck stops with him and now we have a lame duck HC. The NZRFU either don't have the balls to rip off the band aid now, or they have no viable alternative to replace him with
There most certainly are alternatives!
I mean alternatives who are willing to take the job. If the rumours are true and Razor passed, many other coaches are contracted until the end of the RWC23. Now if the NZRFU hadn't even sounded him out that is another story, and entirely plausible of course
Well so far the rumours have all been wrong, and NZR should offer razor until 2025 with specific targets to allow him to continue until 27 (like get back the bled foster is about to lose)
I find it quite funny NZR are following the versus Cheika playbook. Adopting some one above him (Schmidt, sorta), and replace assistants. That worked so well for Oz....
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@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
People worried that Ian Foster isn't seeing Dunsinane for the trees should avoid reading this article
“We’ve still got a strong belief in the direction we’re going and just because it didn’t come together as quickly as we wanted, it’s not the first time we’ve been slow starters in July. I hate saying that, but it is reality.
Can someone enlighten me on this direction that Mr Foster is talking about?
Down the toilet.
Honestly speaking, with Ryan and Schmidt there, you’re not feeling better?
The defence is still a problem, but assuming we get Schmidt’s input there, and a new attack coach, we should be in much better shape.
Would I still prefer Razor there?
Yes, but this is the response I expected.
Not at all, unless there is some skullduggery that we don't know of (McLeod is actually not getting involved, Foster is only a Schmidt mouthpiece, etc) Foster is still head coach and he is not upto it. There is no other reading of what he has produced, same shit since Hansen. It was the awesome shit in 2015, now it is not. McLeod's D is still there, and as Squidge says that D stands for dogshit, our defensive structure is the worst it has been in the pro era.
This is the response I expected but that's only because NZR are so shit. It boils my blood that the buck stops at some assistants, rather than the boss. Especially when the worst offending assistant is still there. What really fucks me off is Foster has not just plain come out and admitted their structure, shape and tactics have not changed enough...
Actually I am stopping here, I am fuming so much I will not be coherent, but changing assistants is totally bandaiding bullet holes. Schmidt? Who gives a fuck, he's an adjunct. It is whole, big picture tactics and structure that are the problem - ergo Foster (and the pencil pushers that support him) is the problem
Just like in the NFL, removing the assistant coaches rarely ends well. Fozz is the reason those guys got chosen and why they are now out of jobs, the buck stops with him and now we have a lame duck HC. The NZRFU either don't have the balls to rip off the band aid now, or they have no viable alternative to replace him with
There most certainly are alternatives!
I mean alternatives who are willing to take the job. If the rumours are true and Razor passed, many other coaches are contracted until the end of the RWC23. Now if the NZRFU hadn't even sounded him out that is another story, and entirely plausible of course
Well so far the rumours have all been wrong, and NZR should offer razor until 2025 with specific targets to allow him to continue until 27 (like get back the bled foster is about to lose)
I find it quite funny NZR are following the versus Cheika playbook. Adopting some one above him (Schmidt, sorta), and replace assistants. That worked so well for Oz....
Totally agree. Knowing Robinson by his previous form this is just another way to fuck things up and prolong the misery
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I agree. All im saying is that these defeats are compounding the decline.
That could have been a scrappy, undeserved series win against a great Irish side if the reffing was consistent.
Instead we have an inept coaching ticket (we already knew that) AND a team that's unravelling confidence and skill wise.
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@Steve said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I agree. All im saying is that these defeats are compounding the decline.
That could have been a scrappy, undeserved series win against a great Irish side if the reffing was consistent.
Instead we have an inept coaching ticket (we already knew that) AND a team that's unravelling confidence and skill wise.
A series win would have papered over the giant cracks in our "systems" right now. The RC/YC situation is a total lottery right now for sure. But we shouldn't have to depend on the ref keeping us in the game or bailing us out. We just look like a disorganised rabble right now
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@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
People worried that Ian Foster isn't seeing Dunsinane for the trees should avoid reading this article
“We’ve still got a strong belief in the direction we’re going and just because it didn’t come together as quickly as we wanted, it’s not the first time we’ve been slow starters in July. I hate saying that, but it is reality.
Can someone enlighten me on this direction that Mr Foster is talking about?
Down the toilet.
Honestly speaking, with Ryan and Schmidt there, you’re not feeling better?
The defence is still a problem, but assuming we get Schmidt’s input there, and a new attack coach, we should be in much better shape.
Would I still prefer Razor there?
Yes, but this is the response I expected.
Yep I do feel better with those 2 there ,
But Foster and McLeod could still stink the whole place out
For me it just seems crazy we are in this position
The NZR dump 2 coaches that were part of Fosters original group that got the vote to take the ABs to the WC,now 2 are gone because they were shit and Ryan comes in originally one of Razors coaching group.
Complete and utter mess. -
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
People worried that Ian Foster isn't seeing Dunsinane for the trees should avoid reading this article
“We’ve still got a strong belief in the direction we’re going and just because it didn’t come together as quickly as we wanted, it’s not the first time we’ve been slow starters in July. I hate saying that, but it is reality.
Can someone enlighten me on this direction that Mr Foster is talking about?
Down the toilet.
Honestly speaking, with Ryan and Schmidt there, you’re not feeling better?
The defence is still a problem, but assuming we get Schmidt’s input there, and a new attack coach, we should be in much better shape.
Would I still prefer Razor there?
Yes, but this is the response I expected.
Yep I do feel better with those 2 there ,
But Foster and McLeod could still stink the whole place out
For me it just seems crazy we are in this position
The NZR dump 2 coaches that were part of Fosters original group that got the vote to take the ABs to the WC,now 2 are gone because they were shit and Ryan comes in originally one of Razors coaching group.
Complete and utter mess.As I’ve mentioned earlier, I think it’s NZRU’s way of essentially guaranteeing Razor the job from 2024. Assuming Ryan reviews well, he stays and Razor now has consistency in his coaching team.
If Razor gets Schmidt on board, he’s home and hosed.
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@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
People worried that Ian Foster isn't seeing Dunsinane for the trees should avoid reading this article
“We’ve still got a strong belief in the direction we’re going and just because it didn’t come together as quickly as we wanted, it’s not the first time we’ve been slow starters in July. I hate saying that, but it is reality.
Can someone enlighten me on this direction that Mr Foster is talking about?
Down the toilet.
Honestly speaking, with Ryan and Schmidt there, you’re not feeling better?
The defence is still a problem, but assuming we get Schmidt’s input there, and a new attack coach, we should be in much better shape.
Would I still prefer Razor there?
Yes, but this is the response I expected.
Yep I do feel better with those 2 there ,
But Foster and McLeod could still stink the whole place out
For me it just seems crazy we are in this position
The NZR dump 2 coaches that were part of Fosters original group that got the vote to take the ABs to the WC,now 2 are gone because they were shit and Ryan comes in originally one of Razors coaching group.
Complete and utter mess.As I’ve mentioned earlier, I think it’s NZRU’s way of essentially guaranteeing Razor the job from 2024. Assuming Ryan reviews well, he stays and Razor now has consistency in his coaching team.
If Razor gets Schmidt on board, he’s home and hosed.
I really hope you are right.
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@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
People worried that Ian Foster isn't seeing Dunsinane for the trees should avoid reading this article
“We’ve still got a strong belief in the direction we’re going and just because it didn’t come together as quickly as we wanted, it’s not the first time we’ve been slow starters in July. I hate saying that, but it is reality.
Can someone enlighten me on this direction that Mr Foster is talking about?
Down the toilet.
Honestly speaking, with Ryan and Schmidt there, you’re not feeling better?
The defence is still a problem, but assuming we get Schmidt’s input there, and a new attack coach, we should be in much better shape.
Would I still prefer Razor there?
Yes, but this is the response I expected.
Yep I do feel better with those 2 there ,
But Foster and McLeod could still stink the whole place out
For me it just seems crazy we are in this position
The NZR dump 2 coaches that were part of Fosters original group that got the vote to take the ABs to the WC,now 2 are gone because they were shit and Ryan comes in originally one of Razors coaching group.
Complete and utter mess.As I’ve mentioned earlier, I think it’s NZRU’s way of essentially guaranteeing Razor the job from 2024. Assuming Ryan reviews well, he stays and Razor now has consistency in his coaching team.
If Razor gets Schmidt on board, he’s home and hosed.
I really hope you are right.
As you’ve seen from my posts on the Chief’s threads, I’m an eternal optimist
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Victor Meldrewreplied to Chester Draws on 24 Jul 2022, 11:23 last edited by Victor Meldrew 24 Jul 2022, 11:59
@Chester-Draws said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I half expect Foster to move on, but Robertson to not be appointed. That has been, after all, the NZR way for decades now.
I suspect Robinson's seemingly all-or-nothing demands and refusing to become an Assistant Coach hasn't played well with NZR and they have concerns about his being a team player. It's poor optics for the public as well.
But then, imagine the meltdown on here if Robertson
Robinsonis appointed over and we get a repeat his 2016 U20 "success"... -
@Victor-Meldrew I think there would be a meltdown on the Fern straight away if Robinson was appointed Head Coach.
Robertson on the hand ....
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@Stargazer maybe Mark Robinson really has been the head coach all along ...
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@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew I think there would be a meltdown on the Fern straight away if Robinson was appointed Head Coach.
Robertson on the hand ....
I should have called him Razor the Saviour to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew I think there would be a meltdown on the Fern straight away if Robinson was appointed Head Coach.
Robertson on the hand ....
I should have called him Razor the Saviour to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding...
I like it Razor the saviour
Not like foster the failure -
@Victor-Meldrew Mmm.. can you confirm where you got this information from? Razor's "seemingly all-or-nothing demands and refusing to become an Assistant Coach". Not having a go but, bugger me, they are hell of assumptions.
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Vic on what basis?
If I was Razor I wouldn't put my name down as assistant.
I wouldn't put my name down as captain either.
The top tier needs sorting.The next 6 weeks is going to be super interesting. Hope the Fern server has plenty of HD space
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I half expect Foster to move on, but Robertson to not be appointed. That has been, after all, the NZR way for decades now.
I suspect Robinson's seemingly all-or-nothing demands and refusing to become an Assistant Coach hasn't played well with NZR and they have concerns about his being a team player. It's poor optics for the public as well.
But then, imagine the meltdown on here if Robertson
Robinsonis appointed over and we get a repeat his 2016 U20 "success"...That anti Razor drum you keep beating must be getting pretty worn out.
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@Victor-Meldrew 2019 Vic! Here is my assumption which is I believe equally valid. Razor hasn't heard diddly squat from anyone in NZR the entire time. Absolutely nothing. The only information he has is from friends like MacDonald and Ryan who are keeping him up to date as to their own movements.
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@pukunui said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
That anti Razor drum you keep beating must be getting pretty worn out.
Que?
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Vic your memory is still in good shape
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@Victor-Meldrew why would Razor want to be assistant coach to somebody with a worse record? Anyway that was 2019. Considering 2 assistant coaches just lost their jobs and likely ever chance to be head AB coach I'd say he was on the money. Not being a team player? Don't think I have heard such murmurs from either the Crusaders or coaches who worked with him!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Any source more recent? I know there is lots of talk, but do we even know if Robinson and Razor have been in contact?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew why would Razor want to be assistant coach to somebody with a worse record? Anyway that was 2019. Considering 2 assistant coaches just lost their jobs and likely ever chance to be head AB coach I'd say he was on the money. Not being a team player? Don't think I have heard such murmurs from either the Crusaders or coaches who worked with him!
Bloody hell. I wasn't attacking him or anyone else - I was simply making the point that perhaps Razor The Saviour publicly saying he didn't want an Assistant role, and it was all or nothing, didn't go down well with the head honcho's of NZR at the time. They might have seen him and continue to see him - rightly or wrongly - as not a team player. Just an observation.
But if you're right, and he wouldn't work with anyone he sees as inferior to him, then how would that play with the NZR chieftains do you think?
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@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Any source more recent? I know there is lots of talk, but do we even know if Robinson and Razor have been in contact?
No. I was just opining that maybe the NZR Demigods may have been pissed off with his all-or-nothing approach and he's in their bad books.
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This post is deleted!
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So Razor missed out on the job because he had an inferior assistant coaching line up (at least, that was the public excuse, he realistically missed out on it due to cronyism and conservatism at NZR).
Razor's assistant coaching lineup was: Ryan, McDonald, McLeod, Holland.
50% of those are now in Foster's team with McDonald also heavily rumoured to be joining after the SA tour too...
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
McLeod
Was he Robertson's defence coach?
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nostrildamusreplied to Victor Meldrew on 24 Jul 2022, 15:40 last edited by nostrildamus 24 Jul 2022, 15:40
@Victor-Meldrew Robinson was praising Razor in the media last year. Nb I am NOT saying Razor wouldn't work as assistant coach (and that 3 year old article seemed to extrapolate wildly here) - I am asking why would or should he?
I have no direct line to him or to NZR. I am not even a Crusaders fan!
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kiwi_expatreplied to Victor Meldrew on 24 Jul 2022, 16:27 last edited by kiwi_expat 24 Jul 2022, 16:28
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Tks. Interesting that McLeod was first choice for D in both camps, then.
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NZR debacle
Multi billion dollar business. Had more organization doing my paper round in the Hutt back in the day.
The players aren't the problem
Pathetic -
@The-Docter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew I wish they had all gone. But shall we at least give the new set up a chance?
Yes.
But Foster (and the players) will have no one to blame if the team still lose. And the next 2 tests are a tough challenge -
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus Why would you think that?
He's made it pretty clear that he's hanging around to have a crack at the top job after RWC2023.
I didn't see that. Thank you, I feel better now. All I recall is some poster on here adamant he signed an overseas contract to be announced in August.
He actually signed with NZR until 2024 a few minths back. I would actually think he would be pleased to have Ryan already as part of set up when he takes over.
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@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@The-Docter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew I wish they had all gone. But shall we at least give the new set up a chance?
Yes.
But Foster (and the players) will have no one to blame if the team still lose. And the next 2 tests are a tough challengeThey will be huge challenge, a few of us older followers will remember when the ABs toured SA in 60s etc, you expected to lose tests on high veldt, and both these tests are there!
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I half expect Foster to move on, but Robertson to not be appointed. That has been, after all, the NZR way for decades now.
I suspect Robinson's seemingly all-or-nothing demands and refusing to become an Assistant Coach hasn't played well with NZR and they have concerns about his being a team player. It's poor optics for the public as well.
But then, imagine the meltdown on here if Robertson
Robinsonis appointed over and we get a repeat his 2016 U20 "success"...I like that Robersron knows his history. He would have been of an impressional age back during the 1991 board enforced co-coaching reshuffle fiasco . Obviously he's a smart guy, knows that solution wouldn't work and of no benefit for anyone other than arse-covering executives.
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If the SA tour is a disaster, leave Foster in Cape Town and book a ticket back for Mr J White instead. Perfect solution for a short term fix if Razor does indeed want to wait.
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i doubt macdonald is going to join coaching team as hasnt he been announced as ABXV coach which is playing in different cities at nearly the same time on northern tour. not much use to be coaching the ABs if you are not going to be there.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Tks. Interesting that McLeod was first choice for D in both camps, then.
Interesting in the same way that cancer is interesting. The All Blacks defence must look great in a presentation of the theory. The implemented reality is somewhat different. At some point you have to stop wondering if it's just the players who can't make tackles as opposed to the system that is so easily exploited by the opposition.
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