The Current State of Rugby
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It's not just the drag on Dad's (or Mum's) time in the early evenings - when they have under 5s.
It's more 'exponential' than that.
It's the actual attendance. Dad + 1 kid at a stadium - is a 100% increase on just Dad. Dad + 1 kid is an infinity % increase on zero Dad. Family of 4 ... you get the point
12 year olds , or 16 year olds not watching because they never got into it back when they were 7 or 8 year olds. Because they were in bed, or because Dad couldn't be arsed with the hassle of taking them to a night game.
As a parent, I'm now passed the under-5s consuming my early evenings. However, I am often searching for something to fill in our time on nice Saturday or Sunday afternoons. I am never, 0%, ever trying to find something for us to do as a family at 7:30 on a Saturday night.
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BTW. I'm not talking every week, season ticket-holder, sort of behaviour.
I'm talking, just enough times, spur of the moment, nice afternoons. Enough to get some youngsters hooked. Enough to get a family of 4 buying some tickets.
Basically. Look at Tauranga crowds in the NPC with their floodlightless Domain.
That is the size of the market we excluded by going for 'quality' ( just 5 teams) in a competition spread over time zones.
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@Kiwiwomble agree, short term, not much of an issue, long term, probably...but to poit that NZR dont seem bothered about bums on seats is NPC games schedules mid-winter at 7pm on a Wed/Thurs...no way conducive to attracting new punters, let alone being family friendly.
I recall a game (was a Thursday IIRC) in 2007 v Ta$man, sideways rain, be lucky if there was 1,000 people there to see the stunning 9-3 victory!
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Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
In Wellington we just used to get our prem and senior one games scheduled earlier, so they might be at 11am and 1pm. Maybe some of the lower grades didn't play those weekends, I don't actually know.
Great for the clubs really, as you're more likely to get people down cos they will watch the rep game at the club and people that watch the prems will stick around at the club to watch the rep game.
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Pretty sure Saturday work makes moving club stuff harder
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
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@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
Fair enough mate, sorry I forgot about the QFs, though to be fair they really needed to have those games on Saturday, with SFs this week, to unfair perhaps for teams playing Sunday with short turn around etc perhaps?
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This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
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@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Victor-Meldrew said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mikedogz I'm really not surprised. I think the games this year have been bloody great and the law changes improved the game no end.
Heresy. Everyone knows Super Rugby is fucked.
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
Firstly I think NZers don't attend sport any more. Aussie have a different crowd demographic for rugby so my comment doesn't include them.
Evening games in winter in particular. Good on NZR for changing to the 7pm kick-off, which alleviates some of that. And good on them for having earlier games.
But it's not the standard of the Rugby that is affecting crowds. Somehow they need to make it more attractive, easier and cheaper for people to go.
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@booboo said in The Current State of Rugby:
But it's not the standard of the Rugby that is affecting crowds. Somehow they need to make it more attractive, easier and cheaper for people to go.
It is for me, but I've largely fallen out of love for professional rugby. Appreciate I'm a sample of 1, but I can't be bothered as much any more; I'll still watch and support, but it's dropped well down my priority list. A lot of that is to do with the quality of the game these days; I find it far more grinding and less imagininative than we had. Modern defences, refs, laws and bulked up players don't help. There's arguably better watching at Club or NPC
So, not taking a season ticket next year for the first time in 17 years. I'll go, but will pick and choose the games around my life outside the oval ball
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@Steve yeah the lack of bums on seats is poor optics, and will probably sway a few dollars from TV sponsors, although if NZR/Sky have good viewer stats, again, not a major right now.
@nzzp yeah I'm with you, I'm not bothered if I miss a super game anymore, although this weekends games do move up in importance.
Sky has changed the way we watch as well though, I mean it is at least a dozen years since I last got up in the middle of the night to watch a test, and worse, in recent years, I'll look at the result and then decide if I want to scan the game, watch extended highlights or skip it all together.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve yeah the lack of bums on seats is poor optics, and will probably sway a few dollars from TV sponsors, although if NZR/Sky have good viewer stats, again, not a major right now.
@nzzp yeah I'm with you, I'm not bothered if I miss a super game anymore, although this weekends games do move up in importance.
Sky has changed the way we watch as well though, I mean it is at least a dozen years since I last got up in the middle of the night to watch a test, and worse, in recent years, I'll look at the result and then decide if I want to scan the game, watch extended highlights or skip it all together.
I don't think we are that much different to other parts of the world, just our low population brings everything into sharp relief.
We used to be different because rugby (aside from racing and beer) was the only gig in our little country so it got a much bigger % of attention than it was due.
Do those fans in europe watch all the games or just the ones that are relevant to their team? Those crowds as a proportion of population? The population density is another factor as there is a decent catchment close to the game (or regular transport). Then you have away fans. With bigger populations comes better transport networks and away fans are a real thing. -
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
away fans are a real thing.
all that said, I'm a filthy hypocrite as I'm sliding down SH1 to FMG Stadium tomorrow with an old friend from overseas to watch the game. And as a long time Blues fan, I'll be supporting the Chefs against the anti-rugby Horse People.
I feel slightly ill, but that might only be the thought of someone potentially drinking Waikato Draught.
