All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@No-Quarter he take a total of one step between the pass the "tackle"...thats a fraction of a second
enough time to try and pull out a bit, and get more passive as he was in teh wrong body position.
It's tough, but he was pushing up hard to close the time and space down. That's his job, but it brings a degree of responsibility.
Reckless at worst, but in the current environment, that's a correct Red card. We should talk in the state of the game thread about whether it should be or not. The game's a bit fucked at the moment.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
A million red cards would not have stopped what happened to AT on the weekend
I changed my mind on Angus. Highlights below, 4.47 in.
He advances, dips slightly and then stays upright. If he'd slowed down he'd probably get away with a yellow for being passive. But the movement forward is what's goign to get him in trouble with the laws they way they are.
also, all this and we don't talk about the shitty ruck play by Ireland lying long back from rucks. It's classic Gatland ploy, slowing ruck speed... cynical as shit, but right on the edge of legality. Smart play.
Finally
The attacker changed direction, so too the defender.
The defender has both arms around the attacker ready to make the tackle.
The attacker’s movements were quicker than the defender’s, and the defender came in too high.
Put those two factors together and you have what transpired - head on head contact.
Did the defender purposefully aim for the head?
No
Did it happen due to (lack of) speed of tackle execution?
Yes
RC
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This post is deleted!
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?
Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.
We can debate the foul play aspect all day long but both teams play under the same rules and smart teams will adapt and train players not to jump into charge downs. Try to get lower etc etc.
I am still slightly cynical just how much a difference coaching can make to these instincts and fast paced decisions but at some point, someone like Ofa, SB are ticking bombs in terms of cards.
Edit: O'Gara also said he instantly knew the Savea sub was an error and was surprised Foster and Co let it happen.
Been saying this for some time now.
This is a coaching decision and a player execution problem.
If a coach categorically tells his charges ‘inside the 22 don’t even think about trying to intercept a pass with one hand’ then the coaching team has determined that the reward of an interception and negating a try scoring opportunity is far outweighed by a penalty and YC at least, penalty try and YC at most PLUS playing the next 10 minutes which may leak additional points in that 10-man period and the man down creating additional fatigue for the 14 left on the park which may have implications deeper in the match.
If a coaching team has taken that decision then any one handed interception attempt inside the 22 is the player’s decision.
Player gets lucky and intercepts and it should still be a bollocking by the coaching team.
Player fails, then it’s off for 10, then subbed by coaching team.
That’s how you create a culture and take the referee out of the decision making process.
Repeat the same tactical evaluation with kick charge downs and kick contesting in the air as two other potential high reward, high risk situations.
Tackle zone is a coaching problem
Aim lower. It really is as simple as that.
The reds and TMOs are more involved in matches with certain teams because of the coaching culture.
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@MiketheSnow why do you hate rugby considering you're welsh??
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 I'm heading along so hopefully we put out an inspired performance.
Too many Canes….supporters
😎
Enjoy the game mate, hope it’s a good one.
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@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Leinster’s head coach on how Ireland defused the All Blacks’ front row defence.
They targeted the NZ front row. That has to send alarm bells ringing in the NZ coaching team. The NZ front row didn't work as a unit. Too many disconnects (lack of communication, bad defensive reads or just poor work rate?) and Ireland took advantage.
Can something so fundamental be rectified in a week? I'm not sure. NZ need to focus on starving Ireland of possession and territory. And nullify Irish momentum on early phases, which is where Ireland have successfully targeted NZ's defence, which has struggled to reset fast enough.
NZ's scramble defence has been world class. You can't fault the effort in that regard. But Ireland's structured attack and running lines have manipulated and ripped open NZ's defence too many times for it to be anything but a structural problem.
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@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@stodders Structure = strategy = coaching = sack Foster and his team
Looking at that video, Bower had a couple of misses, one was from a good step from the Irish hooker.
The rest confirm what was observed on the week. Tu'ungafasi had an incredibly poor game, but Taylor was not far behind. Ireland targeted him, especially his outside shoulder. Both were a liability on defence.
Based on their performances, dropping one or both would not come as a surprise to either of them. ST to start with Coles on the bench. Can Bower cover tighthead to allow Ross to start at loosehead? Or is that too much of a risk?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 I'm heading along so hopefully we put out an inspired performance.
Too many Canes….supporters
😎
Enjoy the game mate, hope it’s a good one.
Cheers mate, here’s hoping the wind and rain stays away.
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Another thing worth mentioning is how Ireland have started each half in the 2 tests so far. It has been eerily similar to how England started the WC semi in 2019.
Ireland have been running multi-phase patterned moves and have reaped the rewards. Coincidence? Irish energy levels would be highest in these periods and they are putting everything into their attack at the beginning of each half to obtain an advantage. So far, it has worked.
IMO, the ABs counter this by taking a longer term approach to the game and use the kicking game to suffocate Ireland. Make them play their way out of their territory. Don't give them easy metres or easy kicks to exit.
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@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Leinster’s head coach on how Ireland defused the All Blacks’ front row defence.
Leinster's head coach is Leo Cullen.
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Ireland team to face NZ Maori tomorrow has been named:
15 Michael Lowry (Banbridge/Ulster) 1
14 Jordan Larmour (St. Mary’s College/Leinster) 30
13 Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 97
12 Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/Ulster) 6
11 Jimmy O’Brien (Naas/Leinster) *
10 Ciaran Frawley (Skerries/Leinster) *
9 Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster) 51 Jeremy Loughman (Garryowen/Munster) *
2 Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 20
3 Tom O’Toole (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 2
4 Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster) *
5 Kieran Treadwell (Ballymena/Ulster) 7
6 Cian Prendergast (Connacht) *
7 Nick Timoney (Banbridge/Ulster) 2
8 Gavin Coombes (Young Munster/Munster) 2Replacements:
- Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 27
- Ed Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 6
- Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 24
- Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster) 8
- Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 29
- Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 98
- Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Munster) 34
- Mack Hansen (Connacht) 5
So Earls or Larmour won't be starting and Hansen on the bench looks like the coaching group want him to get more game time under his belt.
Herring, Bealham, Conan, Murray, Carbery get to go again, and looks like Baird could be the back-up lock. -
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Official's
New Zealand v Ireland
Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
ARs: Karl Dickson (RFU) & Christophe Ridley (RFU)
TMO: Tom Foley (RFUHave to say I'm pretty keen to see Barnes in the middle after his performance in the MAB vs IRE 1st Test. I thought he managed that game well.
Me too mate, I actually like the way Barnes refs, from what I have seen of him in NH comp looks to be a reasonably calm ref.
Doesn't muck about, tries to keep the game flowing, friendly with the players while not taking any crap, seems to communicates well and explains his decisions clearly. Become a very good ref now he's learned to spot forward passes
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?
Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.
We can debate the foul play aspect all day long but both teams play under the same rules and smart teams will adapt and train players not to jump into charge downs. Try to get lower etc etc.
I am still slightly cynical just how much a difference coaching can make to these instincts and fast paced decisions but at some point, someone like Ofa, SB are ticking bombs in terms of cards.
Edit: O'Gara also said he instantly knew the Savea sub was an error and was surprised Foster and Co let it happen.
Been saying this for some time now.
This is a coaching decision and a player execution problem.
If a coach categorically tells his charges ‘inside the 22 don’t even think about trying to intercept a pass with one hand’ then the coaching team has determined that the reward of an interception and negating a try scoring opportunity is far outweighed by a penalty and YC at least, penalty try and YC at most PLUS playing the next 10 minutes which may leak additional points in that 10-man period and the man down creating additional fatigue for the 14 left on the park which may have implications deeper in the match.
If a coaching team has taken that decision then any one handed interception attempt inside the 22 is the player’s decision.
Player gets lucky and intercepts and it should still be a bollocking by the coaching team.
Player fails, then it’s off for 10, then subbed by coaching team.
That’s how you create a culture and take the referee out of the decision making process.
Repeat the same tactical evaluation with kick charge downs and kick contesting in the air as two other potential high reward, high risk situations.
Tackle zone is a coaching problem
Aim lower. It really is as simple as that.
The reds and TMOs are more involved in matches with certain teams because of the coaching culture.
100% serious
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MiketheSnow why do you hate rugby considering you're welsh??
Ha ha
I loves it. Best game in town.
Evolve or die. It's dinosaur time.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Leinster’s head coach on how Ireland defused the All Blacks’ front row defence.
They targeted the NZ front row. That has to send alarm bells ringing in the NZ coaching team. The NZ front row didn't work as a unit. Too many disconnects (lack of communication, bad defensive reads or just poor work rate?) and Ireland took advantage.
Can something so fundamental be rectified in a week? I'm not sure. NZ need to focus on starving Ireland of possession and territory. And nullify Irish momentum on early phases, which is where Ireland have successfully targeted NZ's defence, which has struggled to reset fast enough.
NZ's scramble defence has been world class. You can't fault the effort in that regard. But Ireland's structured attack and running lines have manipulated and ripped open NZ's defence too many times for it to be anything but a structural problem.
NZ has some of the most gifted athletes in the rugby world who can pass and kick to their teammates with pinpoint accuracy from 30-40m
But that shouldn't be your go to. Very easy to defend against.
NZ justs needs to truck the ball up for multiple phases, tying in players with the speed and point of attack, then release the backs when there's space and/or an overlap.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?
Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.
We can debate the foul play aspect all day long but both teams play under the same rules and smart teams will adapt and train players not to jump into charge downs. Try to get lower etc etc.
I am still slightly cynical just how much a difference coaching can make to these instincts and fast paced decisions but at some point, someone like Ofa, SB are ticking bombs in terms of cards.
Edit: O'Gara also said he instantly knew the Savea sub was an error and was surprised Foster and Co let it happen.
Been saying this for some time now.
This is a coaching decision and a player execution problem.
If a coach categorically tells his charges ‘inside the 22 don’t even think about trying to intercept a pass with one hand’ then the coaching team has determined that the reward of an interception and negating a try scoring opportunity is far outweighed by a penalty and YC at least, penalty try and YC at most PLUS playing the next 10 minutes which may leak additional points in that 10-man period and the man down creating additional fatigue for the 14 left on the park which may have implications deeper in the match.
If a coaching team has taken that decision then any one handed interception attempt inside the 22 is the player’s decision.
Player gets lucky and intercepts and it should still be a bollocking by the coaching team.
Player fails, then it’s off for 10, then subbed by coaching team.
That’s how you create a culture and take the referee out of the decision making process.
Repeat the same tactical evaluation with kick charge downs and kick contesting in the air as two other potential high reward, high risk situations.
Tackle zone is a coaching problem
Aim lower. It really is as simple as that.
The reds and TMOs are more involved in matches with certain teams because of the coaching culture.
100% serious
Penalise players that attempt to intercept, charge down kicks etc? Those events have won games.
