All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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We may or may not have the cattle and we can't do much about that, but we can do something about the coaching. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see the ABs are not a well coached side.
Internally, compare them to how the Crusaders and Blues look. Players know their roles and generally perform them week in and week out. The ABs often looked confused and seem to be required to play a style that they do not have the skills for at test level.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MiketheSnow First event (green): Ofa's yellow card. Second event (orange): Angus' red card. Both TH props. Thought they needed uncontested scrums because they forgot Bower could have been moved to TH. Because they went for uncontested scrums, they needed to lose another player (they chose Ardie). So off were Ofa, Angus and Ardie = 12 players.
But Angus was Ofa’s replacement, so by position only the TH and the No8 were off = 13 players. From memory Leicester F was already back from Siberia by the time the uncontested scrum was called, so 13 players wasn’t it?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Be good to start well.
Be good to finish well.
Reckon starting well woulda helped us more...sliding doors and all, no YC, RC, YC....at least how they panned out last night...
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Before the fucking Hurricanes fans pile in and go at me because their only 2 all Blacks suck
Irelands first try. Savea is the 2nd tackler. A good loose forward immediately challenges that ball on the ground. No, Ardie reels away for some fucking reason. A quick recycle and we're doomed (shit tackle attempt by WT toi)
He's just not that guy for the tough stuff. He's a cat.
If a team wants easy meters around the fringes, they run at Ardie. He rides them to the ground allowing the momentum to continue with remarkably little resistance.
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As my mate, who watched it said "Wasn't that we were not up for it once letting them in for first try. Was more a case of: as individual genius can win us games, individual fuck ups can lose us games. Freakishly so. It's like they are all individuals, not a team. Almost like there is no plan or structure to fall back on when individual genius turns to individual fuckwits. That's totally a coaching issue"
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It still looks no better the following day. It's also the continuation of a pattern.
Ian Foster might be a nice guy, but he continues to live the ultimate jobs for the boys dream. And his legacy will be quite a few unwanted All Blacks records as a result.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 nah, it's different in recent years, I barely care any more, I still care when Northland loses, but I find myself not caring about AB losses in recent years...it more about frustration through lack of learning (I can assure you Northland make all of the errors that the national.side do, and more at coaching, selection and play)
I don't know what it is, part maturity maybe....
Yep I believe in is maturity etc, my awakening came after SA beat us in 95 WC final, I woke up next day and realised the sun still came up etc. Mind you I a Canes man too so may help, lol. Don't get me wrong I still am one eyed ABs man etc, just not end of world when we lose, and find I enjoy game a bloody sight more because of it.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Can anyone define how the ABs play?
Yes. A static pod doing their level best to negate any benefit of Aaron's pass. And even then they manage to fuck cleaning out and securing the ball quickly.
I think Ireland worked out how to counter Smiths fast flat passes nicely last night and even if he has the best passes of any halfback going around they can often be ineffective with the receiver often isolated
Also Beaudy needs to improve on his touch finders from penalties - we had some great momentum from driving mauls and think we had one kick for touch that should have put us on the 5m line but instead found touch just inside the 22
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@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Can anyone define how the ABs play?
Yes. A static pod doing their level best to negate any benefit of Aaron's pass. And even then they manage to fuck cleaning out and securing the ball quickly.
I think Ireland worked out how to counter Smiths fast flat passes nicely last night and even if he has the best passes of any halfback going around they can often be ineffective with the receiver often isolated
Also Beaudy needs to improve on his touch finders from penalties - we had some great momentum from driving mauls and think we had one kick for touch that should have put us on the 5m line but instead found touch just inside the 22
Yes, if there's a compelling reason to reemploy Mick Byrne for a while, Beaudy's kicking is it.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Can anyone define how the ABs play?
Yes. A static pod doing their level best to negate any benefit of Aaron's pass. And even then they manage to fuck cleaning out and securing the ball quickly.
I think Ireland worked out how to counter Smiths fast flat passes nicely last night and even if he has the best passes of any halfback going around they can often be ineffective with the receiver often isolated
Also Beaudy needs to improve on his touch finders from penalties - we had some great momentum from driving mauls and think we had one kick for touch that should have put us on the 5m line but instead found touch just inside the 22
Yes, if there's a compelling reason to reemploy Mick Byrne for a while, Beaudy's kicking is it.
I think that bridge is burned, from memory they essentially told him that he wasn’t good enough to be a full assistant coach.
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Fostered Out
What will it take for the New Zealand rugby board to cancel Foster’s contract and pay him out? Forget the World Cup. There is no way they’re going to win that anyway.
But if the Bledisloe Cup goes across the Ta$man this year, after a near 20-year run, the clamour for change will be hard to ignore. And losing the Bledisloe looks completely on the cards right now, wouldn’t you say?
Ask yourself: What influence has Foster brought to the All Blacks under his charge, other than a propensity for losing every second game? What stamp has he made on one of the world’s top sporting brands other than completely tarnishing it? As others have said, there appears to be no structure, no logical game plan, no ability to deal with rush defence - just a reliance on luck and individual pieces of brilliance.
Of course, Foster would say in his defence that the All Blacks have to deal with a disrupted schedule due to the ongoing pandemic, but then so has everybody else. He might also say that NZ rugby, due to the drift of talent overseas, does not have the depth it once did. But the Kiwis in the Irish team, dismissed locally as journeymen, were passed over before they drifted offshore for better opportunities. That they are shining in a different environment must say something about the paucity of ideas at home and the attraction of a better set-up elsewhere.
Putting aside individuals, one might also say that all this is an inevitable result of globalisation of talent and the arrival of a tipping point in the ongoing export to the north of NZ rugby intellectual and playing capital. But then that overlooks the fact that some world class coaching talent remains on local shores, including a six times winning Super rugby coach and the recently returned Kiwi who masterminded Ireland’s renaissance.
Perhaps Foster’s strongest defence is the fact that margins in international rugby have tightened. The North no longer lags the south by default, as can be seen in the clean sweep by Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland in their return serves against NZ, Australia, South Africa and Argentina this weekend. The days of the RC sides being automatically fitter, stronger, faster and more resilient and resourceful are over.
But then that is an even stronger argument for a world-class coaching set-up at home featuring coaches who are innovative, forward-thinking, globally attuned and able to get the very best out of the playing resources we have. We can’t control pandemics, the strength of the opposition, the vagaries of the rule book, the variability of referees, the globalisation of the game - we CAN ensure we have a coaching and management structure that provides a hothouse for talent and ideas and preserves and enhances the All Black brand.
Again, I come back to my first question: What will it take for the NZ rugby authorities to grasp that all of that is now at risk?
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I’m going to come back at my point on Cane by pointing out that he led the team for tackles (13,1) and that Paps was the least busy with (5,0), so maybe it is early to put it on Cane.
The guys up front might be a bit different, even Scooters stats aren’t that good.
Ofa’s are a fucking nightmare - 5 penalties and a YC, 2 missed tackles and all of 6 metres.
Cane missed 1 tackle ? I just rewatched the game he missed heaps of tackles, those stats are not to be trusted.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Ta'avao card, as I said at half time, was the worst application of the head impact laws I have seen.
They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Will now subject myself to the thread ...
I said at half time I was looking forward to reading the thread, as my mates and I watching the game found the first half so surreal. But I had a look at the end of the match and I straight up couldn't handle the amount of negativity, and I was one of the key drivers of the Hammettuer thread.
I'm not as disappointed by this loss as others, it has a Cardiff 2007 feel to it for me with the first half surreal-ness and the hammering we took from Jaco's whistle (I'll need a rewatch to see if all were deserved etc) so that seems to have lightened the anger for me.
Maybe I'll get shittier as the week goes on? Maybe I'm just mature enough to handle losses (nope that didn't sound right even as I typed it).
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I’m going to come back at my point on Cane by pointing out that he led the team for tackles (13,1) and that Paps was the least busy with (5,0), so maybe it is early to put it on Cane.
The guys up front might be a bit different, even Scooters stats aren’t that good.
Ofa’s are a fucking nightmare - 5 penalties and a YC, 2 missed tackles and all of 6 metres.
Cane missed 1 tackle ? I just rewatched the game he missed heaps of tackles, those stats are not to be trusted.
Yeah, I remembered at least a couple, so I was a bit surprised. They've been updated to 14,1 now btw :idk:
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@booboo these guys don't suddenly start being unco and unable to catch.
It's all linked to preparation, confidence, trust in those around you, knowing the systems...nothing was in sync last night.
As an aside, Ta'avao getting a RC gets a judiciary visit, if he gets a ban from that contact, rugby is even more fuckeded...
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Hi Folks,
Im new to these pastures.
Here is my two cents for what its worth.
Peyper got all 3 big calls wrong for me.
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Ofa should have been a yellow and penalty try.
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Leicesters was fine for me. Rugby incident. Tiddlywinks etc. To suggest there was intent is disingenuous
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The head clash red is an absolutely farcical call. People paying 150 odd dollars to watch a game see it reduced to that nonsense and then Ardie Savea is collateral damage in the ensuing mess. They are ruining the sport with this garbage. SBW on Anthony Watson is a red.....this isn't.
LF looks a bit slow. I think Clarke can do everything LF can do but has more gas. Rieko isn't a centres arsehole but has improved to be fair. 3 years on from RWC 2019 we still don't know the starting front row, back row, or centres. You could make a case for only Whitelock, Jordan and Aaron Smith being nailed on. Although in Jordans case he should be the fullback.
The team is in fucking rag order. The culture looks shite too. From all the social media its all basketball jerseys, slang and shite haircuts. They all need a boot up the fucking hole.
Grace and Blackadder will become mainstays in the not too distant future. Vaii needs a chance to start instead of one of the veterans.
Id have had Romano as the stop gap over Tuipolutu today . PT is a joke of a player....powder puff.
ST should be starting hooker. Makes Mealamu esque hard yards with footwork before contact.
Mo'unga got absolutely rag dolled out there a few times today. He looked like a boy against men.
Laumape would be useful to have around the last few years.
My silk purse out of a sows ear backline......
- Smith
- Barrett
- Clarke
- Jordie
- Rieko
- Reece
- Jordan
The Irish are a very functional team but pretty blunt. More perspiration than inspiration. They know their jobs and do them well to be fair.
Not sure about their attacking lines though...lazy runners and shepherding/obstruction all over the place. Sexton is passing the ball to players behind a wall of green shirts.
As an aside they (the Irish) are turning into a pretty classless bunch. Sexton wants a conference with the ref on every call. Even going back to the previous encounters such as the Autumn game where Coles was heard saying "jeez he's a mouthy fluffybunny" about Sexton on the ref mic.
O'Mahony hit a player late after Aki's try last week. Today he started a schmozzle and was the one doing all the mouthing. Sexton gave Cane a spray last week after Ringrose gave him a rib tickler and today after Porters try Sexton was down shouting haaaaaaaaaa in Aaron Smiths face. There is also a lot of South Africa-esque rest taking place between play. Feigning injury etc. O'Mahony main culprit. Todays game took over 2 hours. -
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm still so angry how hugely our forward pack got rolled tonight.
Even before the cards that some will use as excuses for their favourites
A Savea was shown for his complete lack of physicality
DP was completely invisible.
Scott Barrett missed two assignments that led to points
The front row who weren't Bower sucked (Bower was really good and I'm becoming a huge fan)
Yes Ofa fucked everything but it was shit. The lineout was predictable. The scrum was scratchy
PGS is not good enough to be a test player and it's a disgrace he gets a jersey.
We need new leadership
Lol this is hilarious, our whole pack showed no physicality last night yet you continue to blame it all on Savea. How about our so called physical players actually stand up for once. Savea did his job last week but I’ve yet to see any other forward bar up, apart from Sam Whitelock andGeorge Bower.
Last nights loss needs to fall on the shoulders of Sam Cane as captain. He needs to show more as a leader because a couple hard tackles just doesn’t cut it. He is such a handbrake when we have ball in hand aswell, I’ve lost count of how many times he’s dropped the ball over the last couple weeks, he’s hopeless. Then there’s the likes of Codie Taylor, Ofa, Scott Barrett and Dalton who didn’t do anything last night. In fact when Ardie went off we literally had no one to get us over the advantage line in that pack.
The fact you didn’t even mention Lester in your match day rundown is a bit of a joke because that was probably the worst performance by any player in Black for about twenty years. He was horrible.
But yeah, let’s just blame it all on Ardie Savea.
Muppet.
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For the first try, poor defence from: Tu'ungufasi, Cane, and Tupaea. Our whole line speed and structure on defence poor. Retallick got smashed out of a ruck like a haven't seen from him. (Looked like Irish 5 came around the ruck to do it ...) Weak tackle effort from S Barrett too. Even when we were giving away penalties (twice in 22) we couldn't slow their ball down. Two loose forwards (Papalii and Cane) stuck in that last ruck, and we didn't slow it at all! Way too easy.
