Super Rugby 2023
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
Shouldve just left it domestic with a champions style cup (maybe with Japan).
The problem there is not enough games.
The current format has 14 regular season games.
You cannot get that with domestic + champions style cup.
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@KiwiMurph Not with just the 5 existing teams but I would have liked at the very least and Western Sydney team added, Country/City in Queensland, etc etc
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2023:
@gt12 ha yeah I didn't reply to the posts further up that were talking about npc teams as opposed to super.
Apologies mate, I was still on super.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Super Rugby 2023:
I don't trust the Aussies not to use Kiwis being eligible to play for the ABs while playing for an Aussie team as a back door way of poaching some talent.
I against it as Aus (or NZ) teams would have no reason not to run test players from other country into ground to start with.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph Not with just the 5 existing teams but I would have liked at the very least and Western Sydney team added, Country/City in Queensland, etc etc
I don't think that's realistic in the short term.
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
Shouldve just left it domestic with a champions style cup (maybe with Japan).
The problem there is not enough games.
The current format has 14 regular season games.
You cannot get that with domestic + champions style cup.
yeah, thats why it would need to be the NPC teams, full round robin and then the second season the top teams also play champions league, maybe have a domestic cup comp for those that aren't. Either that or the extra attrition might mean those playing champions league to not do as well in the league and so new teams get to make the top 4
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
... in a time where sport just doesn't have the allure it did in the past.
I think the issue is other sports are still very popular, i thin the AFL had record crowds in the first couple of rounds, so i feel we're watching rugby slowly die, not sport in general
The more i think about it them more i think rugby needs to decide,
a ) do whatever we need to have the "best" international game, which is what we're doing now, possibly ignore things like AB players playing in aus etc, ignore introducing more possibly weaker teams in new areas
b ) do what is needed for "the game in general" to be more sustainable and popular
I feel focusing on A means we might see the game die other than international, looking at B might mean lowering the overall quality and might mean some fans need to accept the sacrifice but well have local rugby to watch
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@Kiwiwomble Option b might mean that we will never win the RWC again.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think the issue is other sports are still very popular, i thin the AFL had record crowds in the first couple of rounds, so i feel we're watching rugby slowly die, not sport in general
That comment was in reference to NZ, not Oz. There's no other sport that people are watching in large numbers instead of rugby. Most Sky Sport subscriptions are still primarily for rugby first and then other sports. Of the other sports league is dead at domestic level in NZ outside a small hardcore in Auckland, so it's really only soccer/basketball as alternative participation sports but I doubt they're driving subscriptions for Sky.
Also, I don't a and b need be mutually exclusive.
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@Stargazer yeah, that would be the sacrifice but i feel A ends up at the same point eventually, we cant focus on the show piece and let the foundations flounder...at least with B there is still the chance, a strong club comp has a chance of developing the players needed
i feel we're already seeing it, we're focusing on the AB's....but when we flounder a bit in a position (see 6, see 10,12,13)...so you look at the other options and realise the next level down just doesn't have the breadth of options
I honestly don't feel we can have both
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think the issue is other sports are still very popular, i thin the AFL had record crowds in the first couple of rounds, so i feel we're watching rugby slowly die, not sport in general
That comment was in reference to NZ, not Oz. There's no other sport that people are watching in large numbers instead of rugby. Most Sky Sport subscriptions are still primarily for rugby first and then other sports. Of the other sports league is dead at domestic level in NZ outside a small hardcore in Auckland, so it's really only soccer/basketball as alternative participation sports but I doubt they're driving subscriptions for Sky.
Also, I don't a and b need be mutually exclusive.
is that not damning on rugby, the rest of the world getting back to watching their sports and NZ is kind of blah
i dont think they are mutually exclusive, i think B at least has the possibility of providing the players for an good international team
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@Nepia I think league is making a bit of a comeback in some areas, the Northland wide domestic comp has had good numbers for the past few years and the Takahiwai Warriors (One Tree Point/Ruakaka) have been playing in one of the Auckland comps.
Even seeing some school teams now too, although TBF those are often made up of mostly rugby kids anyway.
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@Kiwiwomble I'm not as pessimistic. I think success, both of teams and competitions, and of the sport in general, comes in waves. We're in downward part of the wave now; I believe it will go up again.
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia I think league is making a bit of a comeback in some areas, the Northland wide domestic comp has had good numbers for the past few years and the Takahiwai Warriors (One Tree Point/Ruakaka) have been playing in one of the Auckland comps.
Even seeing some school teams now too, although TBF those are often made up of mostly rugby kids anyway.
It's dead in HB, to the point the region didn't even rate a mention in the NZRL annual report. There used to be a decent Sunday school comp back in the day and there was generally a 4 team senior comp.
It might be a Bombay Hills split with gains up there while still dropping in the rest of the country. Although this article suggests numbers in Auckland are even dire (with only some blame on Covid): https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/477577/startling-decline-drives-auckland-rugby-league-into-action
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@Nepia I know up until say U16s some kids can play both, City team up here used to have pretty much the same team in both a league and rugby comp, had to default on a Rugby game as they had semi-finals for the league on same day.
TBH, outside of up here I have no idea anyway, I'm pretty insular
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia I know up until say U16s some kids can play both, City team up here used to have pretty much the same team in both a league and rugby comp, had to default on a Rugby game as they had semi-finals for the league on same day.
TBH, outside of up here I have no idea anyway, I'm pretty insular
My league team in schooldays had one player who didn't play rugby on Saturdays, he was from Auckland originally and was a diehard rugby hating leaguie which you don't find very often in NZ but still find in abundance in Oz (despite league dominating over here).
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think the issue is other sports are still very popular, i thin the AFL had record crowds in the first couple of rounds, so i feel we're watching rugby slowly die, not sport in general
AFL thrives because there's nothing else to do in Victoria. Only slightly kidding.
The more i think about it them more i think rugby needs to decide,
a ) do whatever we need to have the "best" international game, which is what we're doing now, possibly ignore things like AB players playing in aus etc, ignore introducing more possibly weaker teams in new areas
b ) do what is needed for "the game in general" to be more sustainable and popular
I feel focusing on A means we might see the game die other than international, looking at B might mean lowering the overall quality and might mean some fans need to accept the sacrifice but well have local rugby to watchPutting aside the obvious arguments about participation base, the history of success for the All Blacks means in the modern professional era all endeavours must be directed towards the maintanence of the record (Hansen - Foster's attempt to ruin the legacy not withstanding).
But I do agree that the game could bet better served at the community level in New Zealand and Australia by increasing the length of the season with additional teams. Admittedly the standard would decrease in the shot term, but this could result in a viable product. Of course there will be losers in this equation, but can anyone honestly say that the glory days of domestic competition hasn't already been tarnished beyond repair?
Bums on seats is a result of three factors in my mind:
- Community spirit.
- Time of fixture (not night in the middle of winter).
- Standard of rugby and entertainment value. Also the price of tickets, food etc.
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Schedule planning looks to have been done to deliberately lose fans' interest.
Two weekends in a row of only four games and to make it worse , this weekend has only one game involving NZ sides.
Heard quite a few people comment over Easter that it felt like there were more games to come. -
@Crucial The byes are always in the middle of the competition. Unless you know of a way to move Easter, I think this was unavoidable. The only thing they maybe could have done differently is not having so many NZ teams having the bye at the same time, but maybe they tried and it didn't work out?
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if im honest, i dont know why we have byes if the comp has an even number, im sure the reason is a rest but surely we're better to try and build more depth and keep the interest up
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
if im honest, i dont know why we have byes if the comp has an even number, im sure the reason is a rest but surely we're better to try and build more depth and keep the interest up
Just like the AB resting I think it should be part of the coach/manager's job to adjust rosters to keep players fresh. Get rid of the bye altogether.
