Super Rugby 2023
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@kiwi_expat would you actually see enough players coming across for it to make a difference? Id be surprised. You'd still be more likely to get selected for the ABs from the Saders than the Tahs.
Plus arent the Aussie franchises operating with roughly half the money the NZ ones are? And how does it work with NZ/RA top up contracts? Would take a lot of adjustment to make it worthwhile.
The comp is just a failed idea. The games within each country are actually generally quite close and interesting (e.g. last night with Blues/Chiefs and Brumbies/Tahs both crackers). These are the games people are interested in, too, and get the best TV numbers and crowds. Its the crossover that doesn't work.
Shouldve just left it domestic with a champions style cup (maybe with Japan).
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I don't trust the Aussies not to use Kiwis being eligible to play for the ABs while playing for an Aussie team as a back door way of poaching some talent.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Super Rugby 2023:
I don't trust the Aussies not to use Kiwis being eligible to play for the ABs while playing for an Aussie team as a back door way of poaching some talent.
Definitely more motivation for them than us
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@Crazy-Horse said in Super Rugby 2023:
I don't trust the Aussies not to use Kiwis being eligible to play for the ABs while playing for an Aussie team as a back door way of poaching some talent.
The better way to do it is stipulate that they have to have been captured by NZ to be eligible for selection from an Oz team.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crazy-Horse said in Super Rugby 2023:
I don't trust the Aussies not to use Kiwis being eligible to play for the ABs while playing for an Aussie team as a back door way of poaching some talent.
The better way to do it is stipulate that they have to have been captured by NZ to be eligible for selection from an Oz team.
Nah, they have to live there, just playing for a team for third of the year is not enough. No need
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
Shouldve just left it domestic with a champions style cup (maybe with Japan).
The problem there is not enough games.
The current format has 14 regular season games.
You cannot get that with domestic + champions style cup.
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@KiwiMurph Not with just the 5 existing teams but I would have liked at the very least and Western Sydney team added, Country/City in Queensland, etc etc
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2023:
@gt12 ha yeah I didn't reply to the posts further up that were talking about npc teams as opposed to super.
Apologies mate, I was still on super.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Super Rugby 2023:
I don't trust the Aussies not to use Kiwis being eligible to play for the ABs while playing for an Aussie team as a back door way of poaching some talent.
I against it as Aus (or NZ) teams would have no reason not to run test players from other country into ground to start with.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph Not with just the 5 existing teams but I would have liked at the very least and Western Sydney team added, Country/City in Queensland, etc etc
I don't think that's realistic in the short term.
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
Shouldve just left it domestic with a champions style cup (maybe with Japan).
The problem there is not enough games.
The current format has 14 regular season games.
You cannot get that with domestic + champions style cup.
yeah, thats why it would need to be the NPC teams, full round robin and then the second season the top teams also play champions league, maybe have a domestic cup comp for those that aren't. Either that or the extra attrition might mean those playing champions league to not do as well in the league and so new teams get to make the top 4
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
... in a time where sport just doesn't have the allure it did in the past.
I think the issue is other sports are still very popular, i thin the AFL had record crowds in the first couple of rounds, so i feel we're watching rugby slowly die, not sport in general
The more i think about it them more i think rugby needs to decide,
a ) do whatever we need to have the "best" international game, which is what we're doing now, possibly ignore things like AB players playing in aus etc, ignore introducing more possibly weaker teams in new areas
b ) do what is needed for "the game in general" to be more sustainable and popular
I feel focusing on A means we might see the game die other than international, looking at B might mean lowering the overall quality and might mean some fans need to accept the sacrifice but well have local rugby to watch
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@Kiwiwomble Option b might mean that we will never win the RWC again.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think the issue is other sports are still very popular, i thin the AFL had record crowds in the first couple of rounds, so i feel we're watching rugby slowly die, not sport in general
That comment was in reference to NZ, not Oz. There's no other sport that people are watching in large numbers instead of rugby. Most Sky Sport subscriptions are still primarily for rugby first and then other sports. Of the other sports league is dead at domestic level in NZ outside a small hardcore in Auckland, so it's really only soccer/basketball as alternative participation sports but I doubt they're driving subscriptions for Sky.
Also, I don't a and b need be mutually exclusive.
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@Stargazer yeah, that would be the sacrifice but i feel A ends up at the same point eventually, we cant focus on the show piece and let the foundations flounder...at least with B there is still the chance, a strong club comp has a chance of developing the players needed
i feel we're already seeing it, we're focusing on the AB's....but when we flounder a bit in a position (see 6, see 10,12,13)...so you look at the other options and realise the next level down just doesn't have the breadth of options
I honestly don't feel we can have both
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think the issue is other sports are still very popular, i thin the AFL had record crowds in the first couple of rounds, so i feel we're watching rugby slowly die, not sport in general
That comment was in reference to NZ, not Oz. There's no other sport that people are watching in large numbers instead of rugby. Most Sky Sport subscriptions are still primarily for rugby first and then other sports. Of the other sports league is dead at domestic level in NZ outside a small hardcore in Auckland, so it's really only soccer/basketball as alternative participation sports but I doubt they're driving subscriptions for Sky.
Also, I don't a and b need be mutually exclusive.
is that not damning on rugby, the rest of the world getting back to watching their sports and NZ is kind of blah
i dont think they are mutually exclusive, i think B at least has the possibility of providing the players for an good international team
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@Nepia I think league is making a bit of a comeback in some areas, the Northland wide domestic comp has had good numbers for the past few years and the Takahiwai Warriors (One Tree Point/Ruakaka) have been playing in one of the Auckland comps.
Even seeing some school teams now too, although TBF those are often made up of mostly rugby kids anyway.
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@Kiwiwomble I'm not as pessimistic. I think success, both of teams and competitions, and of the sport in general, comes in waves. We're in downward part of the wave now; I believe it will go up again.
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Nepia I think league is making a bit of a comeback in some areas, the Northland wide domestic comp has had good numbers for the past few years and the Takahiwai Warriors (One Tree Point/Ruakaka) have been playing in one of the Auckland comps.
Even seeing some school teams now too, although TBF those are often made up of mostly rugby kids anyway.
It's dead in HB, to the point the region didn't even rate a mention in the NZRL annual report. There used to be a decent Sunday school comp back in the day and there was generally a 4 team senior comp.
It might be a Bombay Hills split with gains up there while still dropping in the rest of the country. Although this article suggests numbers in Auckland are even dire (with only some blame on Covid): https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/477577/startling-decline-drives-auckland-rugby-league-into-action
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@Nepia I know up until say U16s some kids can play both, City team up here used to have pretty much the same team in both a league and rugby comp, had to default on a Rugby game as they had semi-finals for the league on same day.
TBH, outside of up here I have no idea anyway, I'm pretty insular
